Thermos Freezer Test - Long-term storage

[scarywood75]

Just to be clear, you're putting this together and pulling data with ChatGPT and Claude based on your previous posts, correct?

Can you post sourcing information for said data as well?

It's a specialized bot in the research and science field I used, but yeah I'm no way smart enough to make this up. I shared anyway because some may not have access to that information

 

[scarywood75]

If you guys want to find scientific literature easily, I recommend Semantic Scholar

For AI, to pull these together, I use Omniscientist which is the one I found to give the best answers

 

[Glp1judd]

I guess when I pull them out of the freezer 5 years from now I should get them tested to dose correctly.

Not sure potency can even be tested in an affordable way. Testing we get is usually by molecular weight, isn’t it? That seems insufficient to test potency degradation.

 

[scarywood75]

Not sure potency can even be tested in an affordable way. Testing we get is usually by molecular weight, isn’t it? That seems insufficient to test potency degradation.

HPLC test work for this, you have to compare with a fresh vial tho and then you can "deduct" the loss, but it won't be very accurate since they both will be different concentrations when fresh.

You need to normalize the result using an internal standard to get a more accurate result.

 

[beefsteak]

Good thread, needs more input from users. I have a zojirushi thermos coming and it's apparently the best on the market.

Those 3d printed peptide cases are a joke. It's finally time for proper storage methods.

 

[YoYoFat]

Yeah, well this is the theory, I have not been in here long enough myself to really know if that is true or not.

I feel like it's more on the dramatic side, but I plan on running a vial or two to test. It also depends on the type of peptides

Someone shared a chart (ETA: it was you! ) of how much they regrade over time based on how frequently they thaw, and with zero thaws, they degrade 10%-ish a year.

So if you’ve got an 11.4 overfilled 10mg, then I suppose you could treat it like a straight 10 a year later.

 

[GimmeABreak]

Here's another graph that may be more relatable for you guys, since the ones I posted are for pure peptide, here's one with the difference of fillers on preservation at -20 - Trehalose seems to be the best at that temperature

This chart contradicts the first chart you posted. Pure peptide potency declines 25% after 12 months on this chart but about 6% after 12 mo on the chart that shows zero freeze/thaw cycles?

 

[YoYoFat]

This chart contradicts the first chart you posted. Pure peptide potency declines 25% after 12 months on this chart but about 6% after 12 mo on the chart that shows zero freeze/thaw cycles?

Eh? This has a longer period on the X axis and on a 12 month period shows about 10%.

 

[GimmeABreak]

I just sent out two different T30 samples for testing from different suppliers. Will store at -20C in a thermos (from my original post) in a manual defrost freezer. If I pull out a vial in November-2025 and send it for testing it would be at least one reasonably valid datapoint. Assuming there is consistency from vials in the same batch (or in my case kit).

 

[GimmeABreak]

Eh? This has a longer period on the X axis and on a 12 month period shows about 10%.

Ok, I was reading it wrong and was considering zero freeze/thaw cycles but it is still inconsistent when you compare one freeze/thaw cycle.

This chart is for pure peptides and the green line indicates a 10% decline after 12 months with one freeze thaw cycles.





The red line on this chart indicates a 30% degradation on pure peptides stored at -20C after 12 months.


I agree that there probably isn't any solid research on this and the fillers used during lyophilization probably play a bigger role in degradation than the peptide itself given the % of peptide vs. filler in the total mass.

 

[scarywood75]

Ok, I was reading it wrong and was considering zero freeze/thaw cycles but it is still inconsistent when you compare one freeze/thaw cycle.

This chart is for pure peptides and the green line indicates a 10% decline after 12 months with zero freeze thaw cycles.

View attachment 3416



The red line on this chart indicates a 30% degradation on pure peptides stored at -20C after 12 months.
View attachment 3417

I agree that there probably isn't any solid research on this and the fillers used during lyophilization probably play a bigger role in degradation than the peptide itself given the % of peptide vs. filler in the total mass.

Yeah you're right, it wasn't very clear, thanks for clarifying for everyone else that may wonder!

 

[GimmeABreak]

Good thread, needs more input from users. I have a zojirushi thermos coming and it's apparently the best on the market.

Those 3d printed peptide cases are a joke. It's finally time for proper storage methods.

I almost want to buy a Zojrushi food jar to check it's performance agains my 47oz thermos. I originally bought four of the Hydraflask 32oz food containers because others have made and sell 3d printed vial holders that fit inside them. I was very disappointed in their ability to keep the contents cold after removing from the freezer (only about 2.5 hours).

I think the 3d vial cases are ok if you are storing for <6mo but if you put into a frost free freezer your peps are going to go through a lot of temp variations both from the freeze/thaw cycle and the bigger variable of opening/closing the freezer and adding unfrozen items. We cooked a big pot of chili yesterday and added a few containers to the freezer last night and it caused a huge temp spike:



With our peps being freeze-dried powder, they don't have a lot of cold retention and defrost quickly as the glass vial warms up.

 

[DwightTheDelight]

I just sent out two different T30 samples for testing from different suppliers. Will store at -20C in a thermos (from my original post) in a manual defrost freezer. If I pull out a vial in November-2025 and send it for testing it would be at least one reasonably valid datapoint. Assuming there is consistency from vials in the same batch (or in my case kit).

You are a heck of a person for doing this!

I wish we were going to be alive to see the results, but with all of these fibrils we're forming, even if we are alive in q4 2025, we won't be capable of understanding the results from your experiment.

At least we can leave the results for the next group of peptide researchers from 2026 who discover our fossils.

"Hey boss, come look at these fibril ridden fossils! They seem to be holding some sort of scientific papers."

 

[GimmeABreak]

You are a heck of a person for doing this!

I wish we were going to be alive to see the results, but with all of these fibrils we're forming, even if we are alive in q4 2025, we won't be capable of understanding the results from your experiment.

At least we can leave the results for the next group of peptide researchers from 2026 who discover our fossils.

"Hey boss, come look at these fibril ridden fossils! They seem to be holding some sort of scientific papers."

I agree, not sure where I will be in Q4-25 or if I will still be obsessed with peptides so no commitment.....

I was considering NOT testing the batches on incoming and just testing when i am ready to use them but the advice I got here was it's better to know what you have. I also don't even know if Triz is my long-term GLP. I am probably going to try Reta for maintentice if my heart can handle it. If this is the case I just threw a bunch of money way on stocking up and testing.

Justification: Its only a few months of buying name brand Zep.

 

[scarywood75]

Good thread, needs more input from users. I have a zojirushi thermos coming and it's apparently the best on the market.

Those 3d printed peptide cases are a joke. It's finally time for proper storage methods.

Having a good thermal mass is beneficial to minimize temp fluctuations. I personally use a lunch box that has icepacks built-in