Tirz-Appetite suppression or weight loss?

[geoguy78]

On Reddit if you ask about results on different doses nearly everyone reports whether a certain dose is suppressing their appetite or not. They seem to titrate up only if their food noise and appetites are back.

My goal is weight loss. By the appetite measure I could stay at 2.5 mg for probably a long time, except the last 3 weeks on 2.5 mg I lost no weight. So I can’t get a “read” on if higher doses will help me lose weight beyond appetite suppression. Or if the magic is simply appetite suppression. 900-1000 calories a day has only lost 2 lbs in the last month on 5 mg. Wanting food isn’t a problem—no food noise, no hunger, no craving. Don’t tell me I’m eating too little. I’m post menopausal and I’ve eaten 1200 cal a day for 3 years without scale budging—tracking every bite. I have definite hormonal challenges to weight loss—PCOS, insulin resistant, etc.

Does Tirzepitide help hormonally resistant weight loss at higher doses? Or should Tirzepitide be considered just a terrific appetite suppressant? I’m honestly trying to figure out how the medicine works.

It's definitely more than just an appetite suppressant. The studies have been pretty clear that it ups metabolism (whatever that means) and causes the body to get rid of fat cells. For pure appetite suppression semaglutide is king (maybe cagrilintide?). But tirz has some special sauce where you can still eat and lose weight. Retatrutide has even more of that special sauce. 5mg isn't really a thereaputic dose according to Eli Lilly. If you're not losing on 5mg, it's time to move up, and keep moving up on schedule as long as you aren't suffering wih side effects. 15mg is the current thereaputic max and Eli Lilly is currently studying the safety of doses up to 25mg.

 

[DwightTheDelight]

Wow. That’s an incredible amount of change for your body to acclimate to. I have zero first hand experience that would be applicable.

I’m looking at all this as a lifelong supplement that changes my relationship with food and most importantly sugar.

Whatever “noise suppression “ I’m getting has been enough to get into a calorie deficit with zero other behavior changes. That’s huge for me.

But my loss has been very slow relative to what you’re describing, and for me, that’s the right thing. This is a lifetime thing. Not a diet and not some kind of situation where I want to simply not eat. That’s not healthy either!

If I’m in stasis or a small deficit and I’m losing a few pounds a month while also building up a little more strength, that’s a win!

While that’s happening I’m learning better ways to eat (including smaller portions because I just can’t eat big ones anymore) and maybe doing some more activity because my joints can do it now.

That’s the kind of thing I can do for a lifetime!

Love it, man! Keep it up

 

[another_forum_name]

There is your problem.

I am partly disabled and sedentary and I've lost 55lbs in 6 months with tirz. I am new to this forum and so glad to see that there are so many experts!

 

[Laxfinity]

Thank you. That’s an amazing story, especially your mother too. My problems didn’t start at menopause and everyone has breast cancer in my family so I can’t go on hormone therapy. I’m finding that everyone has a different story, different problems. The fact that these meds help as many people as they do is amazing.

I just read one of your replies. Of the 900 calories are you getting enough protein? I did Macros for a while and it really helped. I was eating too many carbs and not getting enough protein. I promise I will stay in my lane about your calorie intake.

 

[YoYoFat]

Wow! I really appreciate all this!

I do eat 100 grams of protein a day. I do log my food and weigh it (I have 11 years of logging on My Fitness Pal, even Christmas Day when I eat 4500 calories—I’m an expert). I’m strict on macros, especially protein, carbs and fiber. I’ve done Atkins for 7 months testing to make sure I was in ketosis the whole time. My question may make it seem like I’m blindly in this but I’m no newbie at weight loss, well, except the loss part. Before these meds came out I went from doctor to doctor to nutritionist to nutritionist to gym trainers. Literally I tried everything. Then I gave up for a couple of years. These meds gave me hope. I’m trying not to lose that hope but it’s fading fast.

I am a newbie at is Tirzepatide. I don’t understand how it works and since it’s not working on me for weight loss I’m trying to figure that out. I don’t care about appetite suppression. At all. I care about losing weight.

I’ve never heard anyone say that TDEE doesn’t work on hormonal imbalances. That’s good to hear.

I will work on the water. I do use Liquid IV but will increase. Thank you.

It sounds like your question is: “Because my diet and exercise are pretty much the same as before Tirz, and I was already in a calorie deficit and don’t need help with food noise and appetite, I’m hoping Tirz is a peptide that will function to burn fat off my body. Is that the case?”

There are better peptides for that, as I understand it. Reta, for example. But I haven’t researched that one myself.

 

[YoYoFat]

I realize now that I was constantly craving “something” my whole life, and I also have learned that food was a way I medicated that. It wasn’t hunger. I believe it’s a hormonal sugar/insulin imbalance that these drugs somehow are treating.

I’ve definitely been medicating something, but I think it’s more emotional than anything.

I’m struggling with finding something to fill the void that food filled. I used to spend half my day planning my meals and cooking and eating. I don’t know what to do with myself anymore.

Just teared up typing that out loud.

 

[YoYoFat]

Between 4-10 times a day is considered normal.

Lord, I think I pee 10 times a day. Half of that is before noon.

 

[meowTime]

Lord, I think I pee 10 times a day. Half of that is before noon.

That is actually too much. You can talk to a urologist to confirm (I got this info from one) but you are likely drinking too much.

 

[Glp1judd]

I’ve definitely been medicating something, but I think it’s more emotional than anything.

I’m struggling with finding something to fill the void that food filled. I used to spend half my day planning my meals and cooking and eating. I don’t know what to do with myself anymore.

Just teared up typing that out loud.

Yeah, a lot of changes and a lot of growth and some mourning and grief are all accompanying this phase.

Don’t really like drinking anymore either on this stuff, so I’m having to fill a few things I used to do for fun.

Good news is, I look better, I feel SO MUCH BETTER, and my family will likely get to keep me around a bit longer if I maintain this lifestyle.

I have so much more energy and don’t feel like I’m dying. That’s big!

I thought it was just age, but the weight was killing me. I’m gonna pick up a new hobby or two, and once I get a little further down, I’m buying all new clothes.

🙂

 

[SmokeySquid]

5mg isn't really a thereaputic dose according to Eli Lilly. If you're not losing on 5mg, it's time to move up, and keep moving up on schedule as long as you aren't suffering wih side effects. 15mg is the current thereaputic max and Eli Lilly is currently studying the safety of doses up to 25mg.

Considering my own experience, it's crazy to me that 5mg isn't considered a therapeutic dose and that they are considering moving all the way up to 25mg but as long as it works for people that's all that really matters. I think when I get to the point that the medicine is increasingly not working, I will take a break for a month or two to try and reset like some here have done.

Lord, I think I pee 10 times a day. Half of that is before noon.

Hey another member of the constantly having to pee club. Not sure about you but it's been this way my whole life. The worst is long drives.


For me, the weight loss was instant and effortless the second I started with tirz. Now I don't really know if it was the medicine directly causing more fat to be burned but I can say the most noticeable and desired affect for me was elimination of food noise. Without the devil on my shoulder telling me to go to McDonalds, I was able to make the choices I always wanted to make regarding food. Appetite/hunger is still there but not too bad. I actually don't mind having hunger be there to a degree as I don't want to risk not eating all day or not eating enough to the point of causing malnutrition. I'm 3 months in and 3.75mg every 5 days is more than enough to keep the food devil gone 😈

 

[YoYoFat]

That is actually too much. You can talk to a urologist to confirm (I got this info from one) but you are likely drinking too much.

Nah. It’s not too much, I’ve been like this my entire adult life. My pee always has color and I don’t drink anywhere as much as “they” say I should.

 

[FrankTdog]

Nah. It’s not too much, I’ve been like this my entire adult life. My pee always has color and I don’t drink anywhere as much as “they” say I should.

Some of us just have tiny bladders! 😅

 

[rkl123]

Try DSIP (Delta Sleep Inducing Peptide), if you are comfortable with daily injections. It improves my sleep quality exponentially.

The wiki on it mentions something about it being less stable in vitro. Is that at all an issue?

 

[MingHenry]

Try DSIP (Delta Sleep Inducing Peptide), if you are comfortable with daily injections. It improves my sleep quality exponentially.

I just started DSIP (and will be starting Epithalon and VIP). I saw you linked to that dosing chart - what protocol and dosing are you following? I've researched all the protocols I could find - and still trying to decide which one "feels" right to me. I'm only 4 days in and still finding the right time for the dose -went from 9pm to 11:30 pm, yesterday was 6pm, today was 5pm - and staying at 100mcg which I feel until I figure out the correct timing for my body. I'm dealing with serious and chronic insomnia and circadian rhythm disruption.

 

[AndyPanda]

I just started DSIP (and will be starting Epithalon and VIP). I saw you linked to that dosing chart - what protocol and dosing are you following? I've researched all the protocols I could find - and still trying to decide which one "feels" right to me. I'm only 4 days in and still finding the right time for the dose -went from 9pm to 11:30 pm, yesterday was 6pm, today was 5pm - and staying at 100mcg which I feel until I figure out the correct timing for my body. I'm dealing with serious and chronic insomnia and circadian rhythm disruption.

3 hours prior to bed
4 weeks - .5mg per 50lbs body weight
4 week flush

 

[MiniatureSnail]

I don't know how sedentary you are. Something made you fat. Don't ask questions and then get attitude when people try to give you advice.

Chill buddy, assume best intent. I didn't read her question as being contrary or having attitude.

Edit: oops, I'm woefully behind. Ignore me.

 

[MingHenry]

This. This is the kind of info I need. What you say is Greek right now but it gives me something to research. Thank you!

Definitely worth looking into, but there are many peptides that have a range of possible benefits that include weight loss, metabolism and more. FWIW, 2 months on tirz is not a long time. People are skipping among GLPs like they are candy, switching and adding and stacking too much and too soon and often not giving the initial GLP they are on time to work, and switching and stacking without much knowledge about what interacts well and what doesn't. Some people don't respond well to one or the other or the other GLPs. A seemingly small number are non-responders. But oddly you are responding because of your lack of appetite and food noise etc. Whatever you do, remember that only tirz and sema have actually been FDA approved and have gone through all the testing. Reta, Cagri in conjunction with others, mazo, etc, are all still in the testing phases and there is research to read, protocols the tests are following to learn about. Just a suggestion to dig in and learn before jumping in and injecting into your body. Having patience and going slowly is a good thing. The motto I can't take credit for but follow is to avoid known or discoverable risks, reduce the chances of harm to myself, and always start low and slow.

 

[MingHenry]

3 hours prior to bed
4 weeks - .5mg per 50lbs body weight
4 week flush

That's not the protocol I'm following though measuring dose against body weight is interesting. Is this your first research with it? It's mine I've started at 100mcg and trying to find the right time to dose that works with my body. 9 pm and 11:30 pm weren't right for me. 6 pm was better yesterday and today was 5 pm. For severe and chronic insomnia and circadian rhythm issues, like I have, I have read that higher doses for longer periods may be most effective, but figured I would start off low and feel my way from there. I do feel a tiny bit groggy in the morning from only 100mcg but it passes quickly. Any morning grogginess for you? When you say 4 week flush, do you mean you cycle off it for 4 weeks and then start again? I've not seen the term "flush" used in this context.

 

[AndyPanda]

That's not the protocol I'm following though measuring dose against body weight is interesting. Is this your first research with it? It's mine I've started at 100mcg and trying to find the right time to dose that works with my body. 9 pm and 11:30 pm weren't right for me. 6 pm was better yesterday and today was 5 pm. For severe and chronic insomnia and circadian rhythm issues, like I have, I have read that higher doses for longer periods may be most effective, but figured I would start off low and feel my way from there. I do feel a tiny bit groggy in the morning from only 100mcg but it passes quickly. Any morning grogginess for you? When you say 4 week flush, do you mean you cycle off it for 4 weeks and then start again? I've not seen the term "flush" used in this context.

Only groggy if I take it late or if something disrupts my sleep. Yes, 4 weeks off.

 

[Binxy]

My goal is weight loss. By the appetite measure I could stay at 2.5 mg for probably a long time, except the last 3 weeks on 2.5 mg I lost no weight…

900-1000 calories a day has only lost 2 lbs in the last month on 5 mg…Don’t tell me I’m eating too little. I’m post menopausal and I’ve eaten 1200 cal a day for 3 years without scale budging—tracking every bite.

Hello. You might want to consider focusing on strengthening your gut biome for a month before increasing the GPP1 dose. Look into getting water and/or milk kefir grains to make water kefir or milk kefir at home, as well as consuming other top probiotic food sources. Also, I didn’t read the whole thread, so you may have addressed this already, consider focusing on building lean muscle mass through resistance or weight training.

 

[psyhfm]

The dose of 2.5mg is to get your body accustomed to a glp-1. You are not expected to lose any weight at that dose. Please don't lose hope. I did not start losing weight until 7.5mg/week. And that is what the studies show (I have researched this extensively in the medical journals). Stay at each dose for a month before increasing. If you start losing on 5mg, stay at that dose until you stop losing. Only increase when you stop losing but again, studies show weight loss starts around 7.5mg. Other people may lose at lower doses but that is not to be the expectation. I have learned that I must have 100mg of protein a day in order to have any weight loss. I'm currently on 12.5mg and have stopped losing. Food noise is back, eating larger amounts is back. So everything I had and the reason I went on Tirz is back. However, I think that is because I have stopped placing this journey as number one. I have a lot of things to rethink and redo. I have lost 70lbs in 9 months. Please don't expect tons of weight loss at the beginning, patience and it will happen for you as well. Good luck, you have this.

Wow! I really appreciate all this!

I do eat 100 grams of protein a day. I do log my food and weigh it (I have 11 years of logging on My Fitness Pal, even Christmas Day when I eat 4500 calories—I’m an expert). I’m strict on macros, especially protein, carbs and fiber. I’ve done Atkins for 7 months testing to make sure I was in ketosis the whole time. My question may make it seem like I’m blindly in this but I’m no newbie at weight loss, well, except the loss part. Before these meds came out I went from doctor to doctor to nutritionist to nutritionist to gym trainers. Literally I tried everything. Then I gave up for a couple of years. These meds gave me hope. I’m trying not to lose that hope but it’s fading fast.

I am a newbie at is Tirzepatide. I don’t understand how it works and since it’s not working on me for weight loss I’m trying to figure that out. I don’t care about appetite suppression. At all. I care about losing weight.

I’ve never heard anyone say that TDEE doesn’t work on hormonal imbalances. That’s good to hear.

I will work on the water. I do use Liquid IV but will increase. Thank you.

 

[penewbie]

The dose of 2.5mg is to get your body accustomed to a glp-1. You are not expected to lose any weight at that dose. Please don't lose hope. I did not start losing weight until 7.5mg/week. And that is what the studies show (I have researched this extensively in the medical journals). Stay at each dose for a month before increasing. If you start losing on 5mg, stay at that dose until you stop losing. Only increase when you stop losing but again, studies show weight loss starts around 7.5mg. Other people may lose at lower doses but that is not to be the expectation

I am sorry but your "research" is wrong.

All studies clearly show the average person begins losing weight at 2.5mg, that is the rule not the exception.

Top right graph, weight loss at 2.5mg during the first 4 weeks is pretty damn strong.

However, that being said, just because the average person loses weight on 2.5mg doesn't mean everybody does, and there are in fact studies done on people who are late responders, and the conclusions are that even though it takes a while, it's worth it.

 

[Laxfinity]

Try DSIP (Delta Sleep Inducing Peptide), if you are comfortable with daily injections. It improves my sleep quality exponentially.

This is really interesting. Thank you for sharing this... going to do some research as I never heard of this. Did the hydroxyzine not work for you?

 

[Valerie]

On Reddit if you ask about results on different doses nearly everyone reports whether a certain dose is suppressing their appetite or not. They seem to titrate up only if their food noise and appetites are back.

My goal is weight loss. By the appetite measure I could stay at 2.5 mg for probably a long time, except the last 3 weeks on 2.5 mg I lost no weight. So I can’t get a “read” on if higher doses will help me lose weight beyond appetite suppression. Or if the magic is simply appetite suppression. 900-1000 calories a day has only lost 2 lbs in the last month on 5 mg. Wanting food isn’t a problem—no food noise, no hunger, no craving. Don’t tell me I’m eating too little. I’m post menopausal and I’ve eaten 1200 cal a day for 3 years without scale budging—tracking every bite. I have definite hormonal challenges to weight loss—PCOS, insulin resistant, etc.

Does Tirzepitide help hormonally resistant weight loss at higher doses? Or should Tirzepitide be considered just a terrific appetite suppressant? I’m honestly trying to figure out how the medicine works.

 

[Valerie]

I’ve been on Terzip compound for 9 months and found it’s an excellent appetite suppressant and I lost weight. I went past goal and now in maintenance. I was 225, dropped to 185 the exercise diet way, my body would go no further despite best efforts and I started with Zep. Goal was 140.

Zepbound was stronger than compound tirz at the same dose as were the side effects. I haven’t tried Pep tirz ; it’s on the way.

2.5mg was a loading dose with minimal wt loss. Wt loss began at 5mg and I stayed there for 3 months and lost 20lbs. I stalled for about 60 days as my body adjusted to the new bmr which was frustrating but in hindsight a great thing as my skin snapped back into place nicely. During that time I increased 1mg about every two weeks and progress began again at 8mg. I increased 1mg a month after that landing at 12mg which gave me full control for 7 days of what and when I chose to eat. I lost the remaining 25 lbs. I probably didn’t need to go that high but it’s been my favorite dose. After 5mg my side effects didn’t increase as I went up. All food noise was eliminated.

The 1 constant side effect has been fatigue especially prevalent for 48 hrs 2 days after injection.

I’m interested in seeing if I notice any difference between compound and pep; I hope not because I’ll certainly enjoy the savings.

 

[hexagonal]

Exactly, the TDEEs are useless to those with weight that is metabolically related.

I'm sorry, but this just isn't sound science. There's growing (but not universal) scientific consensus around the constrained energy model of energy expenditure (though even the best studies with doubly labeled water, etc. have some flaws in them), but none of these state that TDEE is useless. At most they mean that the efficiency is not 1:1, and the efficiency rate gets lower the more you push yourself. If you burn 1000 calories exercising, your body might try and save 500 calories throughout the rest of the day vs. your usual expenditure by lowering energy usage in other ways.

Metabolic issues can make weight loss massively more difficult for a variety of reasons, and no one should just go "CALORIES IN CALORIES OUT LOL," because it ignores the complexity at hand. But human beings require energy be burned to be alive - your body can't function without fuel. Starvation is obviously a thing that occurs. And that energy has to come from somewhere. If you're not eating enough to provide that energy, it will come from the stores in your body.

There's a lot of ignorance that goes around with people just shrugging and saying "eat less" ignoring the difficulties there, the impact metabolic disorders have on your base levels of energy expenditure, how the body adapts to a variety of things, etc. And you certainly can't exercise out of a bad diet. But to say that TDEE is useless in any situation is throwing the baby out with the bathwater and denies physics. Increasing your TDEE will burn additional calories, and if those calories aren't available from your diet, it will come from your body mass. It just might not be as simple as saying that an hour on a stationary bike increases your TDEE by 600kcal because your body might then decide it needs to reduce your energy expenditure elsewhere by 300kcal.

 

[Needsalife]

I’m the original poster. I did increase my dose to 5 mg and did start consistently losing. I’m down 52 lbs now and have a much better handle on what Tirzepatide can do and how my body handles it. I can’t say I did anything earth shattering to break a stall, then or now. I just keep doing what I’m doing and increase dose when I’ve stalled several weeks. I’m up to 10 mg. Thank you for your insight and advice. It helped.