UGL vs “gray”

[exploitedworkerbee]

I’ve noticed a lot of folks using a new euphemism for what we used to call underground lab peptides, calling it “gray” now. Thought it could be an interesting topic for discussion. My cynical side concludes that this is a way to help buyers ignore the risks involved, since “gray market” makes it sound like pharma with a different supply channel, where “underground lab” conjures images of rogue labs without oversight. Curious what y’all think about this trend.

 

[Glp1judd]

Grey area is what I tell my friends and family who I don’t want to worry about me.

Odious death potion is what I tell the unteachable risk takers who ask how many units they should inject per millimeter.

 

[Vicki]

I think we should have stuck with UGL since everyone is in reality shopping drug dealers on the internet. It just sounds cute when you call it gray

 

[noteablequotable]

I think I've said this before so don't want to be repetitive, but I like grey market because I don't think we're buying black market goods, but we're obviously not buying over the counter meds either.

I think what we do is actually pretty closely aligned with the official definition (if you think Wikipedia is official):

A grey market or dark market (sometimes confused with the similar term "parallel market")[1][2] is the trade of a commodity through distribution channels that are not authorised by the original manufacturer or trademark proprietor. Grey market products (grey goods) are products traded outside the authorised manufacturer's channel.

 

[zpped]

I think I've said this before so don't want to be repetitive, but I like grey market because I don't think we're buying black market goods, but we're obviously not buying over the counter meds either.

I think what we do is actually pretty closely aligned with the official definition (if you think Wikipedia is official):

A grey market or dark market (sometimes confused with the similar term "parallel market")[1][2] is the trade of a commodity through distribution channels that are not authorised by the original manufacturer or trademark proprietor. Grey market products (grey goods) are products traded outside the authorised manufacturer's channel.

But isn't that what bee means? These aren't really the "same goods on an unauthorized channels" That would be buying branded zep from another country where its cheaper and importing it.

This is more like counterfeit zep. It's made from the same main ingredient, tirz, but that's akin to a fake handbag also being made from leather. The rest of the manufacturing isn't the same and you can't have the same confidence in the finished product.

I think ugl implies that detail more.

 

[keangkong]

I’ve noticed a lot of folks using a new euphemism for what we used to call underground lab peptides, calling it “gray” now. Thought it could be an interesting topic for discussion. My cynical side concludes that this is a way to help buyers ignore the risks involved, since “gray market” makes it sound like pharma with a different supply channel, where “underground lab” conjures images of rogue labs without oversight. Curious what y’all think about this trend.

If this was a black market item, I wouldn't have it shipped to my house using my real name. And I wouldn't pay for it with bank transfers, which would provide strong evidence permitting my criminal prosecution if I was acting illegally.

 

[keangkong]

I think I've said this before so don't want to be repetitive, but I like grey market because I don't think we're buying black market goods, but we're obviously not buying over the counter meds either.

I think what we do is actually pretty closely aligned with the official definition (if you think Wikipedia is official):

A grey market or dark market (sometimes confused with the similar term "parallel market")[1][2] is the trade of a commodity through distribution channels that are not authorised by the original manufacturer or trademark proprietor. Grey market products (grey goods) are products traded outside the authorised manufacturer's channel.

A commodity is, by definition, indistinguishable in appearance and quality, from those produced by different manufacturers. As a result, I found the Wikipedia entry to be nonsensical.

 

[noteablequotable]

But isn't that what bee means? These aren't really the "same goods on an unauthorized channels" That would be buying banded zep from another country where its cheaper and importing it.

This is more like counterfeit zep. Its made from the same main ingredient, tirz, but thats akin to a fake handbag also being made from leather. The rest of the manufacturing isnt the same and you can't have the same confidence in the finished product.

I think ugl implies that detail more.

Is a fake handbag a black market good? Genuine question

 

[Vicki]

Is a fake handbag a black market good? Genuine question

Its considered as such. They shut down the sellers all the time in the city here.

 

[stickfigure]

Many of these sellers have controlled substances in their price lists. Some, like HGH, a felonies to possess in the US. You may call it what you want, but you are still purchasing from an overseas drug dealer.

You think feds are going to look at your bank transaction and say "this doesn't look like he was paying for HGH, let's not investigate"? They are seeing you are wiring money to a known drug dealer. Did you buy fentanyl or topical GHK-CU? They don't know, unless they open your package at customs, perform a controlled delivery or get a search warrant. So save your receipts

 

[nonyabizznez]

I think the leather handbag isn't a good example here although I understand the intent. Leather makes nice things and ugly things. Nobody buys a random unknown item just because it says "leather" in the description. Is it a men's wallet or a ladies shoe?

Tirz is a substance, it's either Tirz or it's not. Tirz is the patented and only active ingredient in Zep/Mounjaro. You can get it tested and verified.

On a side note thanks @exploitedworkerbee for spelling it "gray". I know it's acceptable as "grey" but I have a personal aversion to that spelling after working for the dog bus company for 25yrs

 

[PopTart]

I’ve always associated UGL with AAS.

Black market is the correct term IMO.

Gray market is not the correct term but seems to be a more comfortable term or helps legitimize purchasing from black market.

 

[zpped]

I think the leather handbag isn't a good example here although I understand the intent. Leather makes nice things and ugly things. Nobody buys a random unknown item just because it says "leather" in the description. Is it a men's wallet or a ladies shoe?

Tirz is a substance, it's either Tirz or it's not. Tirz is the patented and only active ingredient in Zep/Mounjaro. You can get it tested and verified.

On a side note thanks @exploitedworkerbee for spelling it "gray". I know it's acceptable as "grey" but I have a personal aversion to that spelling after working for the dog bus company for 25yrs

and it's either leather or not leather, the differences exist even its the same leather from the same factory. the vial has so many other things than tirz in it and there are so many variables into how it is finished. I think its an excellent analogy.

 

[hexagonal]

If it is legal to produce the product in the country of origin, it doesn't really matter if it's illegal elsewhere. A distillery making bourbon in the US isn't a bootleg moonshine operation just because alcohol is illegal in some other country.

Where the questionable part comes in is selling these things to us knowing that there are legal concerns. But I've worked with manufacturers in other industries in China, including ones that big box stores all over the world are happy to work with, that are also perfectly happy to go well past bending the rules in the countries they are shipping to if there is money to be made and they don't think it will jeopardize the rest of their business. A lot of times the "made at the same factory with the same materials" counterfeit stuff is just lies to increase marketing, but the lies work because it also does actually happen, too.

We're buying from people that operate under a different moral/ethical code than we tend to live with. But they're not like the cartel.

I think grey is a fairly accurate description of the situation. But I also don't think that inherently means anything about it is safer than a UGL in America selling AAS or whatever.

 

[GrowlyVA]

"Gray" gives off the possibility of future legality and we all know that's never gonna happen. UGL is more accurate.

 

[AndyPanda]

Many of these sellers have controlled substances in their price lists. Some, like HGH, a felonies to possess in the US. You may call it what you want, but you are still purchasing from an overseas drug dealer.

You think feds are going to look at your bank transaction and say "this doesn't look like he was paying for HGH, let's not investigate"? They are seeing you are wiring money to a known drug dealer. Did you buy fentanyl or topical GHK-CU? They don't know, unless they open your package at customs, perform a controlled delivery or get a search warrant. So save your receipts

If I’m interpreting your post correctly, I agree with you. They may investigate, but still have a burden of proof. They can’t prosecute someone without proving that it’s is an actual controlled substance. It’s super easy to test for fentanyl or amphetamines and I highly doubt they would even waste resources to go after someone for a personal use amount of something like steroids. There is absolutely horrific stuff coming through our ports that should take precedence over things that do not pose much of a risk to the general public.

 

[Bacchus]

I’ve noticed a lot of folks using a new euphemism for what we used to call underground lab peptides, calling it “gray” now. Thought it could be an interesting topic for discussion. My cynical side concludes that this is a way to help buyers ignore the risks involved, since “gray market” makes it sound like pharma with a different supply channel, where “underground lab” conjures images of rogue labs without oversight. Curious what y’all think about this trend.

Glad to see someone pick up this topic, I never really understood what makes this grey market instead of black?

 

[Bacchus]

If I’m interpreting your post correctly, I agree with you. They may investigate, but still have a burden of proof. They can’t prosecute someone without proving that it’s is an actual controlled substance. It’s super easy to test for fentanyl or amphetamines and I highly doubt they would even waste resources to go after someone for a personal use amount of something like steroids. There is absolutely horrific stuff coming through our ports that should take precedence over things that do not pose much of a risk to the general public.

While a full scale investigation is very unlikely, it is rather likely that they try the waters with some angry letters or call a buyer in for a simple interview. Easy padding of statistics if an unexperienced buyer thinks honesty is the best policy

 

[AndyPanda]

While a full scale investigation is very unlikely, it is rather likely that they try the waters with some angry letters or call a buyer in for a simple interview. Easy padding of statistics if an unexperienced buyer thinks honesty is the best policy

For sure. They may try to intimidate someone into other admissions, or to get them to snitch if they think they can pad their stats with actual arrests.

 

[Lullabytreehugger]

See the problem is American capitalism is all about greed and making money. Make money over someone elses health and dont worry about the financial burden such treatments can have on people already struggling with inflation, rent, cost of living.

If Ozempic and Mounjaro were fairly priced like china then I would have purchased from these big companies 100 times over instead of buying china made dupes.

The fact of the matter is this all comes down to greed. I watched a documentary where Nova Nordisk was asked how much it costs them to make a 4mg ozempic pen they refused to answer the question but one of the medical cost researchers estimated it at less than $3USD a pen.

Tell me how can you justify selling that same product at $200 a pen? How much profit is enough profit?

My mounjaro pen cost me $790 AUD for 60mg pen. Do you think that is affordable?

I even used up my medical insurance pharmacy allowance so for the rest of the financial year, no other purchases will be covered. I have to pay from my own pocket.

I simply cannot afford western pharma anymore …