Reta vs Tirz

[JCO79]

Many thanks to this community for the education and empowerment. I know there are a lot of discussions about Reta vs tirz and I have read and learned a ton from them. The search function is so helpful. I did finally pin 1mg Reta yesterday for the first time and kind of waiting to see if the low dose has any noticeable effect. Despite all this, I’m still deliberating what to use long term. For context, I am already at my goal weight through very restrictive food choices and have kept this up for several years after a significant weight loss. It's not really a "normal" lifestyle and I want to be able to eat a few carbs without turning on the addictive food behaviors I am prone to. I like to lift weights and I have some issues with anxiety. I would prefer to optimize the dose of a single agent before considering combination therapy. I know I just have to decide, but can I please get a logic check on the following?

Reta pros:
-higher food intake
-more energy for exercise

Tirz pros:
-more food noise suppression
-less sleep disruption
-finished with phase 3 trials and excellent safety record
-more robust/easier storage of reconstituted peptide
-?more benefit for anxiety

Being a bit of an anxious type, I am already feeling an urge to stockpile and want to make sure I pick the agent I am most likely to use. I am leaning toward tirz but just worried about low energy and bad or no workouts in that setting. Thanks again to anyone who has insights based on their experience.

 

[woundcarping]

If you just need supportive appetite control and don’t need to lose weight, Tirz sounds like the clear winner to me.

 

[JCO79]

That makes sense. Maybe I am overblowing the negative impact on energy level from tirz? I work out but it takes a lot of motivation for me. I'm more of a buffalo than a squirrel.

 

[Grogu]

Many thanks to this community for the education and empowerment. I know there are a lot of discussions about Reta vs tirz and I have read and learned a ton from them. The search function is so helpful. I did finally pin 1mg Reta yesterday for the first time and kind of waiting to see if the low dose has any noticeable effect. Despite all this, I’m still deliberating what to use long term. For context, I am already at my goal weight through very restrictive food choices and have kept this up for several years after a significant weight loss. It's not really a "normal" lifestyle and I want to be able to eat a few carbs without turning on the addictive food behaviors I am prone to. I like to lift weights and I have some issues with anxiety. I would prefer to optimize the dose of a single agent before considering combination therapy. I know I just have to decide, but can I please get a logic check on the following?

Reta pros:
-higher food intake
-more energy for exercise

Tirz pros:
-more food noise suppression
-less sleep disruption
-finished with phase 3 trials and excellent safety record
-more robust/easier storage of reconstituted peptide
-?more benefit for anxiety

Being a bit of an anxious type, I am already feeling an urge to stockpile and want to make sure I pick the agent I am most likely to use. I am leaning toward tirz but just worried about low energy and bad or no workouts in that setting. Thanks again to anyone who has insights based on their experience.

If you're weighing pros and cons, the safety record one should really say that tirzepatide is an FDA approved medication with an excellent safety record. While I think it's a foregone conclusion that reta will gain FDA approval, it ain't over until the fat lady sings.

I can't provide much feedback on reta versus tirz, as my first pin of reta was just on Friday night, but I was fairly more aggressive than you and pinned 4mg. I'm feeling it a little this morning and it's decidedly different than sema or cagri. Out of the three, I think I felt the most effect from sema actually, which is totally strange. I would say that cagri was the "cleanest" for me. I felt nothing strange, no feelz really, and the only side effect was a total and wonderful disinterest in food. Had to push myself to eat.

 

[woundcarping]

That makes sense. Maybe I am overblowing the negative impact on energy level from tirz? I work out but it takes a lot of motivation for me. I'm more of a buffalo than a squirrel.

If you’ve never meaningfully tried anything, and you just need assistance with intake/appetite control/food noise, Tirz is where I’d start.

If you expect problems, you’re more likely to have problems.

I didn’t have energy problems on Tirz, but I moved to Reta ~3 weeks in as it was a better fit for my goals which involve cutting my body fat percentage in ~half.

 

[skunkypotato]

As someone who has only taken tirz, the energy thing is not an issue for me and I’m on 10mg and still 30ish pounds from goal weight. I’m actually more motivated to hit the gym. Part of my issue was putting in the work at the gym prior to any glp’s and not seeing my gains cause they were covered with fat. Now that I’m losing fat I am getting returns on that effort. Not to mention all the health markers coming down. I’m trying to resist jumping over to reta since what I’m doing is definitely working. Grass isn’t always greener on the other side or sometimes it’s just as green.

 

[DragonOfTheSea]

I definitely had a few weeks (meaning only 24-36hrs after each dose, only for a period of several hours) of pretty intense drowsiness (near narcolepsy 😵) when starting out on Tirz, but that subsides and may not even occur for you.
Long term it shouldn’t be an issue and as others have said and I agree, Tirz sounds like the way to go, but your body will be the ultimate judge of that.. everyone reacts differently and it might be Sema or Reta that ends up giving you what you want.

 

[BNLFL]

I started on Reta, and it's working good still at 17 weeks. No desire to change. You could say I have a stock pile.

 

[Grogu]

I started on Reta, and it's working good still at 17 weeks. No desire to change. You could say I have a stock pile.

I've stockpiled a decade of tirzepatide and now that I'm pinning with reta, realize that I only have a couple years of reta and probably should have got some of that R140 🤣

 

[FartfulCodger]

I think both Tirz and Reta are miracle drugs, but I'm a big fan of Tirz. Lost 60 pounds in 5 months. Reta just didn't work the same way for me when I tried to switch to it. I will say that if you decide to take Reta, don't take Tirz first. You'll get spoiled on Tirz's appetite suppression and you might regain some weight when you first make the switch from Tirz to Reta.

 

[woundcarping]

...probably should have got some of that R140 🤣

A real friend would have warned you about that outcome...

 

[woundcarping]

...I will say that if you decide to take Reta, don't take Tirz first. You'll get spoiled on Tirz's appetite suppression and you might regain some weight when you first make the switch from Tirz to Reta.

That wasn't my experience, I was 2 weeks in to 5mg/weekly Tirz.

I don't want to not eat, I do want to eat less and lose weight. I could eat on Tirz, I eat on Reta. Not eating is "bad" and hard to sustain long term.

Grey is Tirz, pink is Reta.

 

[Grogu]

A real friend would have warned you about that outcome...

I was warned over and over, friend, I'm just not the sharpest tool in the shed sometimes 🤣.

Anyone out there debating how much peptides to order. You can have never have too much money, be too young, or have too many peptides in your freezer!

 

[woundcarping]

I was warned over and over, friend, I'm just not the sharpest tool in the shed sometimes 🤣.

Anyone out there debating how much peptides to order. You can have never have too much money, be too young, or have too many peptides in your freezer!

Money is expensive, everyone knows opportunities are CHEAP! 😛

 

[Pin&Play]

Reta triggered my anxiety even though I'm not usually anxious.

So since you mentioned it, that alone for me it's enough to suggest you start with Tirz.

I'm also pretty sure that you won't be tired with any GLP if you eat enough (probably just heavy because of the slow digestion)

 

[randompersonrandom]

I think for most people, tirz is the better choice right now; reta is for mild hoarding.

We have longish term safety data and efficacy data about tirz, and we know most of what we need to know about titration, side effects, dosing, the manufacturers have had plenty of time to perfect making it, it's been on the market for long enough to not be too expensive, and it's overall a great drug that works in ways that make sense to people who have a hard time not eating too much too often.

We don't know as much about reta right now as we'd realistically need to know to make sure we're buying stuff that works well and doesn't randomly degrade or have efficacy stuff problems after X amount of time or cause the kind of serious effects that we'd know about if it were in the general population. It's so new, and things with it are going to be messy and unexpected for a few years.

It's a perfectly logical choice for people who have found that tirz is no good for them, but tirz really ought to be the try-first for most people, and for a lot of people it's the this-is-right.

 

[WLBLD]

You're already at your goal & mentioned it hard sometimes. Since Tirz is more studied maybe try that 1st at a low dose. A lot of people are using low doses to maintain & make things easier.

Maybe try 1 vial 1st to see how it works for you. If it doesn't work for you then stop & try Reta

I have really bad anxiety & do both. I feel much more calm now

 

[woundcarping]

...but tirz really ought to be the try-first for most people, and for a lot of people it's the this-is-right.

I'd also weigh your goals vs trial data outcomes and see where you land. For example, if you're wanting to lose 30+% of your starting weight, Reta doubles or better* the likelihood vs Tirz comparing 48 week Reta trial data to 72 week Tirz data. *Reta hadn't reached plateau at 48 weeks while Tirz had at 72 weeks.

A new idea/concept I'm exploring that I got from @Grogu is the idea that our bodies adapt to the peptides in a given time, not a given dose.... the various doses curves are all similar and plateau at similar timings. Antithetical to the idea of "low and slow"... but to my knowledge there haven't been studies to show the effects of increasing dose after the plateau and observing weigh changes and comparing that to being at a higher dose before the plateau.

 

[FartfulCodger]

That wasn't my experience, I was 2 weeks in to 5mg/weekly Tirz.

I don't want to not eat, I do want to eat less and lose weight. I could eat on Tirz, I eat on Reta. Not eating is "bad" and hard to sustain long term.

Grey is Tirz, pink is Reta.

View attachment 21872

Wow. Did you really take 18mg of Reta over 18 days? Yes, I'd have to say I don't have any experience with that kind of dose, and it does seem like it would lead to fast weight loss. I know it would have given me serious allodynia.

 

[randompersonrandom]

I'd also weigh your goals vs trial data outcomes and see where you land. For example, if you're wanting to lose 30+% of your starting weight, Reta doubles or better* the likelihood vs Tirz comparing 48 week Reta trial data to 72 week Tirz data. *Reta hadn't reached plateau at 48 weeks while Tirz had.

A new idea/concept I'm exploring that I got from @Grogu is the idea that our bodies adapt to the peptides in a given time, not a given dose.... the various doses curves are all similar and plateau at similar timings. Antithetical to the idea of "low and slow"... but to my knowledge there haven't been studies to show the effects of increasing dose after the plateau and observing weigh changes and comparing that to being at a higher dose before the plateau.

That's a really good point.

 

[Grogu]

I'd also weigh your goals vs trial data outcomes and see where you land. For example, if you're wanting to lose 30+% of your starting weight, Reta doubles or better* the likelihood vs Tirz comparing 48 week Reta trial data to 72 week Tirz data. *Reta hadn't reached plateau at 48 weeks while Tirz had at 72 weeks.

A new idea/concept I'm exploring that I got from @Grogu is the idea that our bodies adapt to the peptides in a given time, not a given dose.... the various doses curves are all similar and plateau at similar timings. Antithetical to the idea of "low and slow"... but to my knowledge there haven't been studies to show the effects of increasing dose after the plateau and observing weigh changes and comparing that to being at a higher dose before the plateau.

Yes, no studies looking at what happens if we keep increasing doses in the period we would anticipate plateaus on these medications and absolutely no studies about changing pathways in the same period (e.g. adding an amylin receptor agonist, adding phentermine/topiramate, or even metformin).

I remember an interview a while back with Dr. Jastreboff, the lead researcher on most of the tirzepatide clinical trials, and someone asked her what happens if someone doesn't achieve the desired weightloss on tirzepatide. And she said something to the effect that depending on someone's level of obesity, multiple medications might be necessary if goal isn't reached. If one stops working then she would switch the patient to another medication.

 

[sheilarae74]

Reta pros:
-higher food intake
-more energy for exercise

Tirz pros:
-more food noise suppression
-less sleep disruption
-finished with phase 3 trials and excellent safety record
-more robust/easier storage of reconstituted peptide
-?more benefit for anxiety

Hopefully reta works better for you as far as energy. I have struggled with extreme exhaustion most of the time I have been on it. I would definitely get more exercise if it weren't for that. There is no way I could ever take tirz if it is worse for fatigue.

 

[woundcarping]

...it does seem like it would lead to fast weight loss...

My weight loss target is specific and purposeful, 1% week/week with .9-1.2% being the acceptable short term guardrails without a specific cause for deviation (like a few weeks in to TRT, gained 3lb overnight, took a few weeks to fall off).

...I know it would have given me serious allodynia.

I had a brief stint with allodynia, not intrusive and if I didn't know to attribute it to Reta, I'd have probably not given it enough thought to care enough to figure it out, just a minor annoyance of the body.

Wow. Did you really take 18mg of Reta over 18 days?...

I was already at 5mg/weekly of Tirz. I took frequent, small doses with the goal to get my Reta levels up to the reliable GCGR signaling range, estimated to be 6-8mg/week steady state, without running deep into sides I'd have to ride out. My transition from Tirz to Reta was very smooth and effective.

Specifically I took 12 pins in the first 18 days totaling 21mg; 15 pins in the first 30 totaling 32mg. I only took 2 doses of Tirz during that time totaling 4.5mg to support the transition.

 

[Loscar]

That makes sense. Maybe I am overblowing the negative impact on energy level from tirz? I work out but it takes a lot of motivation for me. I'm more of a buffalo than a squirrel.

I have to take pre work out and hype myself up. Then i go for it! Definitely there with you being more of a buffalo than a squirrel no matter how much I work out I feel like that every morning. I've been on Tirz since Feb.

 

[Fakenamerealwoman]

As someone who has only taken tirz, the energy thing is not an issue for me and I’m on 10mg and still 30ish pounds from goal weight. I’m actually more motivated to hit the gym. Part of my issue was putting in the work at the gym prior to any glp’s and not seeing my gains cause they were covered with fat. Now that I’m losing fat I am getting returns on that effort. Not to mention all the health markers coming down. I’m trying to resist jumping over to reta since what I’m doing is definitely working. Grass isn’t always greener on the other side or sometimes it’s just as green.

I’ve been hearing a lot of complaints about anhedonia on reta so if you have the ability to feel joy and still have a sex drive, are probably golden on tirz

 

[JCO79]

My weight loss target is specific and purposeful, 1% week/week with .9-1.2% being the acceptable short term guardrails without a specific cause for deviation (like a few weeks in to TRT, gained 3lb overnight, took a few weeks to fall off).

View attachment 21878


I had a brief stint with allodynia, not intrusive and if I didn't know to attribute it to Reta, I'd have probably not given it enough thought to care enough to figure it out, just a minor annoyance of the body.



I was already at 5mg/weekly of Tirz. I took frequent, small doses with the goal to get my Reta levels up to the reliable GCGR signaling range, estimated to be 6-8mg/week steady state, without running deep into sides I'd have to ride out. My transition from Tirz to Reta was very smooth and effective.

Specifically I took 12 pins in the first 18 days totaling 21mg; 15 pins in the first 30 totaling 32mg. I only took 2 doses of Tirz during that time totaling 4.5mg to support the transition.

View attachment 21882

Woundcarping - can I ask how you determined this dosing strategy for your transition? Did you have some kind of pharmacokinetic model you were using or did you do this by how you were feeling? It is potentially going to take me a while to find my effective dose if I start low and increase the dose every 4 weeks, as I had been planning.

 

[woundcarping]

Woundcarping - can I ask how you determined this dosing strategy for your transition? Did you have some kind of pharmacokinetic model you were using or did you do this by how you were feeling? It is potentially going to take me a while to find my effective dose if I start low and increase the dose every 4 weeks, as I had been planning.

I wanted to get to 6-8mg steady state levels without flooring myself with sides.

My assumption was smaller doses could accumulate to real symptoms, but the peak across the line into symptoms would be relatively small and thus clear quickly.

So, I started taking doses, evaluating the sides (basically none) and kept taking them until I got to the point I wanted to be, then transition to 2x weekly dosing.

I started the transition on 1/10, and on 1/17 I took my first 4mg dose with the second 4mg dose being 3 days later (2x weekly). I don't have any notes recorded for why but the next week I did two 3.5mg doses, followed by 2 4mg, and moving on to 5mg on 2/16 and 2/20.

 

[BNLFL]

I've stockpiled a decade of tirzepatide and now that I'm pinning with reta, realize that I only have a couple years of reta and probably should have got some of that R140 🤣

I'll holler next time. 🤣 I have 6 kits of Reta from GB from R30-R140 incoming eventually. I'm not telling you how many mg's I'll have. Some here know. I don't need any, but when someone posts up a killer price in a GB, I can't help myself.

 

[woundcarping]

I'll holler next time. 🤣 I have 6 kits of Reta from GB from R30-R140 incoming eventually. I'm not telling you how many mg's I'll have. Some here know. I don't need any, but when someone posts up a killer price in a GB, I can't help myself.

It's not like he doesn't have access to the same spreadsheet with your name on it.... 🤣

 

[Grogu]

I'll holler next time. 🤣 I have 6 kits of Reta from GB from R30-R140 incoming eventually. I'm not telling you how many mg's I'll have. Some here know. I don't need any, but when someone posts up a killer price in a GB, I can't help myself.

Yes, I was aware of that GB and saw you and some other peeps from here on the spreadsheet.

I actually ordered 5 kits of cagri from that GB and vasillated about the R140 for weeks. Told myself over and over again (and other peeps) that I wasn't going to do it since I wasn't on reta. Started reta on Friday night. Things change 🤣.