IGF-1 LR3 - not seeing much talk here

[latviantower]

I’ve been doing a lot of reading, and I see more than a few recommendations of people saying skip the GLP1 and go straight to HGH. If the point of HGH is the stimulate production of IGF-I, I’m a little surprised that I don’t see more recommendations of proceeding straight to using IGF-I and skipping that intermediate HGH step. That being said, I also haven’t seen any research protocols on this forum for IGF-I. My reading on other research sites has suggested 50-100 mcg daily, 4-6 weeks/4-6 weeks off.

Any feedback? AndyPanda, you seem to be forthcoming with the HGH recommendation- do you have thoughts here? Does anyone else have experiences to share?

Thanks.

 

[Calm Logic]

I’ve been doing a lot of reading, and I see more than a few recommendations of people saying skip the GLP1 and go straight to HGH.

No such recommendations here to skip GLPs, at least for losing weight.

There isn't that much talk at Meso about LR3. There is some, but nothing compared to HGH.

Compared to HGH, LR3 is not as well researched or understood, including regarding side effects. HGH is at least FDA approved for some things.

 

[Calm Logic]

For better or worse, LR3 also has a longer half-life than HGH. My new favorite single-vial reseller, Grey Axis ("a chemical supplier"), has LR3 on their website. Amino Annex also sells it by the vial.

But the lack of research articles on LR3 is still very concerning. There are no human studies. There is a positive article on the Meso site, but it mentions bilateral injection for the muscle group just trained:

https://thinksteroids.com/steroid-profiles/igf-1/

And I just read that low-strength acetic acid is needed for recon:

The Most Advanced Peptide Recovery Protocol

Endless Evolution Physiological Amplification Method Physiological Tissue Regeneration via Peptides and the Systematic Amplification of Cellular Process & Organization, Receptor Signaling & Modulation, and related Physiological processes. Before we dive into the jaw-dropping case studies below...

www.chrisduffin.com

LR3 needs to be reconstituted with .05% (NOT .5%) acetic acid solution versus Bacteriostatic Water that is more readily available. Because it is reconstituted in an acid, after drawing your dose into your needle for administration you should backload another 15+ units of Bacteriostatic Water into the syringe to reduce the PH. The acetic acid is needed while in the vial so that it doesn’t degrade but adding water into the syringe right before administration will be better than injecting it as an acid. This will also help it disperse into the tissue further.

The author of that blog post says he rather just take GHRP instead, due to the complexity of LR3 recon/administration.

On the positive side, LR3 seems less illicit than HGH. Though LR3 is an unapproved drug, it is not specifically mentioned in federal regulations like HGH.

Similar info on Reddit about recon:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Peptides/comments/blc83a/comment/en86zop

View: https://www.reddit.com/r/Peptides/comments/blc83a/comment/en86zop/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

 

[RocketGotRobbed]

I knoow several guys on blast whoo have replaced HGH with LR3. They swear by it. I am still using HGH myself. It is what I know and fully understand. I may give LR3 ago next cycle.

 

[Calm Logic]

Do you know what doses they are using for LR3? And are they injecting it subq like HGH?

The doses seem all over the place. The Meso article mentions 100 mcg, but I saw one guy was using up to 500 mcg per day. On the low end:

The Most Advanced Peptide Recovery Protocol

Endless Evolution Physiological Amplification Method Physiological Tissue Regeneration via Peptides and the Systematic Amplification of Cellular Process & Organization, Receptor Signaling & Modulation, and related Physiological processes. Before we dive into the jaw-dropping case studies below...

www.chrisduffin.com

Some examples:

25mcg x 2 day Every Other Day EOD for 4-6 weeks
25mcg Every 3rd Day E3D for 12+ weeks

It should be noted that the 25mcg dose reduces spillover, which is not desirable as the greatest concentration of IGF receptors are in the gut.

 

[AndyPanda]

I’ve been doing a lot of reading, and I see more than a few recommendations of people saying skip the GLP1 and go straight to HGH. If the point of HGH is the stimulate production of IGF-I, I’m a little surprised that I don’t see more recommendations of proceeding straight to using IGF-I and skipping that intermediate HGH step. That being said, I also haven’t seen any research protocols on this forum for IGF-I. My reading on other research sites has suggested 50-100 mcg daily, 4-6 weeks/4-6 weeks off.

Any feedback? AndyPanda, you seem to be forthcoming with the HGH recommendation- do you have thoughts here? Does anyone else have experiences to share?

Thanks.

I don’t know of anything better for weight than GLPs. I think HGH is more to the point than any of the secretagogues and the niche peptides like AOD, 5-Amino. I think it’s the best for anti-aging as well but if you are under 40 you probably produce enough GH on your own. The only peptides I have faith in are GLPs, Glutathione and AICAR. I’ve tried more at this point than I haven’t but everyone is different.

 

[Calm Logic]

I have no complaints about HGH either, especially given its synergy with AAS.

HGH just seems fragile compared to GLPs and other peptides. Like fragile enough that some on Meso may rightly be saying that filtering it may cause unnecessary mechanical stress, leading to aggregation. I don't usually filter anymore anyway.

 

[RocketGotRobbed]

I asked the couple of dudes I know. they both said 50mcg IM into the muscle group they are training. I'll pass.

 

[AndyPanda]

I asked the couple of dudes I know. they both said 50mcg IM into the muscle group they are training. I'll pass.

I’m no expert, but that sounds off to me.

2-4 IU per day subcutaneous with a maximum dosage of 6 IU used by extreme bodybuilders.

HGH cycles are broad and can be anywhere from 6 to 24 weeks, with 16 weeks being the average duration for a bodybuilding cycle.

 

[latviantower]

I’m no expert, but that sounds off to me.

2-4 IU per day subcutaneous with a maximum dosage of 6 IU used by extreme bodybuilders.

HGH cycles are broad and can be anywhere from 6 to 24 weeks, with 16 weeks being the average duration for a bodybuilding cycle.

I think he was referring to IGF1, not HGH. 50 mcg does seem high - most of what I read was more like 20 bilaterally - 20 in each bicep post workout for example. But pro bodybuilders probably go higher.

 

[AndyPanda]

I think he was referring to IGF1, not HGH. 50 mcg does seem high - most of what I read was more like 20 bilaterally - 20 in each bicep post workout for example. But pro bodybuilders probably go higher.

Ah, I see. My bad.

 

[Calm Logic]

One positive for IGF-LR3 is that it is less fragile than HGH, due to its simpler, smaller, engineered structure.

HGH is even more fragile than I thought. Six days of reconstituted HGH being outside the fridge resulted in a purity of 59.3 percent. And if there ever was a reason to vent a vial for recon, it would be generic HGH, to prevent foaming and aggregation.

Lyophilized, HGH is obviously far less delicate and even safe to store in the freezer, which is best per Jano for multi-year storage of HGH. But according to Gemini: "HGH powder is typically kept refrigerated, while LR3 powder is kept frozen for long-term storage."

From what I am gathering, doing recon of HGH with something like injectable B-12 that has phenol may be a better preservative than BAC for HGH recon. But I'm not sure.

From Gemini:

Substance	State	Storage Temperature	Shelf Life	Important Notes
HGH	Lyophilized powder	2-8°C (36-46°F)	Until expiration date (typically 1-2 years)	Store in original packaging, away from light. Some brands may be stable at room temperature for a short period. Avoid freezing.
HGH	Reconstituted	2-8°C (36-46°F)	Varies widely. 24 hours up to 28 days depending on diluent (e.g., bacteriostatic water vs. sterile water).	Do not freeze. Reconstituted HGH is very fragile. Discard if cloudy, discolored, or contains particles.
IGF-1 LR3	Lyophilized powder	-20°C to -80°C (-4°F to -112°F)	Several years	More stable than lyophilized HGH. Can be stable at room temperature for a few weeks, but long-term storage requires a freezer.
IGF-1 LR3	Reconstituted	2-8°C (36-46°F)	2-4 weeks. Can be aliquoted and frozen at -20°C for longer storage (up to several months).	More robust than reconstituted HGH. Avoid repeated freeze-thaw cycles if frozen. Store away from light.

Key Takeaways

• Lyophilized HGH is less stable than lyophilized LR3. HGH powder is typically kept refrigerated, while LR3 powder is kept frozen for long-term storage.
• Reconstituted HGH is a very fragile protein and has a short shelf life, requiring strict refrigeration and use within a few weeks.
• Reconstituted LR3 is significantly more stable than reconstituted HGH due to its modified structure. It has a longer refrigerated shelf life and can be frozen for extended periods.

 

[latviantower]

One positive for IGF-LR3 is that it is less fragile than HGH, due to its simpler, smaller, engineered structure.

HGH is even more fragile than I thought. Six days of reconstituted HGH being outside the fridge resulted in a purity of 59.3 percent. And if there ever was a reason to vent a vial for recon, it would be generic HGH, to prevent foaming and aggregation.

Lyophilized, HGH is obviously far less delicate and even safe to store in the freezer, which is best per Jano for multi-year storage of HGH. But according to Gemini: "HGH powder is typically kept refrigerated, while LR3 powder is kept frozen for long-term storage."

From what I am gathering, doing recon of HGH with something like injectable B-12 that has phenol may be a better preservative than BAC for HGH recon. But I'm not sure.

From Gemini:

Substance	State	Storage Temperature	Shelf Life	Important Notes
HGH	Lyophilized powder	2-8°C (36-46°F)	Until expiration date (typically 1-2 years)	Store in original packaging, away from light. Some brands may be stable at room temperature for a short period. Avoid freezing.
HGH	Reconstituted	2-8°C (36-46°F)	Varies widely. 24 hours up to 28 days depending on diluent (e.g., bacteriostatic water vs. sterile water).	Do not freeze. Reconstituted HGH is very fragile. Discard if cloudy, discolored, or contains particles.
IGF-1 LR3	Lyophilized powder	-20°C to -80°C (-4°F to -112°F)	Several years	More stable than lyophilized HGH. Can be stable at room temperature for a few weeks, but long-term storage requires a freezer.
IGF-1 LR3	Reconstituted	2-8°C (36-46°F)	2-4 weeks. Can be aliquoted and frozen at -20°C for longer storage (up to several months).	More robust than reconstituted HGH. Avoid repeated freeze-thaw cycles if frozen. Store away from light.

Key Takeaways

• Lyophilized HGH is less stable than lyophilized LR3. HGH powder is typically kept refrigerated, while LR3 powder is kept frozen for long-term storage.
• Reconstituted HGH is a very fragile protein and has a short shelf life, requiring strict refrigeration and use within a few weeks.
• Reconstituted LR3 is significantly more stable than reconstituted HGH due to its modified structure. It has a longer refrigerated shelf life and can be frozen for extended periods.

Did your research indicate whether recon of IGF1-LR3 requires 0.6% acetic acid? I’ve read both aa and bac.

 

[Calm Logic]

Reconned with that low strength of AA and then administered by adding BAC to the syringe, to lower the pH:

IGF-1 LR3 - not seeing much talk here

I’ve been doing a lot of reading, and I see more than a few recommendations of people saying skip the GLP1 and go straight to HGH. If the point of HGH is the stimulate production of IGF-I, I’m a little surprised that I don’t see more recommendations of proceeding straight to using IGF-I and...

glp1forum.com

 

[latviantower]

I asked the couple of dudes I know. they both said 50mcg IM into the muscle group they are training. I'll pass.

IM pin post workout in the targeted muscle is for IGF1, which has like a 10 minute half life. IGF1-LR3 has a 30 hour half life and you’re good to pin subq- it moves throughout the body.

 

[jemifus]

HGH is even more fragile than I thought. Six days of reconstituted HGH being outside the fridge resulted in a purity of 59.3 percent. And if there ever was a reason to vent a vial for recon, it would be generic HGH, to prevent foaming and aggregation.

Hey thanks the informative post and for linking the meso thread. In that thread from 2020, people asked about testing refrigerated reconstituted HGH after a week and Jano said he was thinking about doing it. Do you know if that ever happened?

 

[Calm Logic]

Do you know if that ever happened?

No.

 

[Calm Logic]

IM pin post workout in the targeted muscle is for IGF1, which has like a 10 minute half life. IGF1-LR3 has a 30 hour half life and you’re good to pin subq- it moves throughout the body.

Another vote for subq:

Unlocking the Power of IGF-1 LR3: The Ultimate Guide to Growth and Rec

As we delve into the ultimate guide, we will uncover the science behind IGF-1 LR3 and how it influences our body's processes. From boosting protein synthesis to enhancing cellular regeneration, the benefits are profound and promising.

swolverine.com

Most protocols recommend a dosage between 20 to 100 micrograms per day, depending on factors such as body weight, fitness goals, and previous peptide use. For beginners, it's advisable to start at the lower end (20–40 mcg/day) to assess tolerance and minimize side effects (Siddle, Growth Hormone & IGF Research)...

IGF-1 LR3 is typically administered via subcutaneous injection, although some protocols include intramuscular (IM) application depending on the user's goals. Subcutaneous injections offer more consistent absorption and are generally preferred for ease and comfort (Bidlingmaier et al., Clinical Endocrinology).

Though LR3 is used to target muscle growth (with or without HGH), I'm not in a rush to try it. As Andy was saying, HGH is more comprehensive. And HGH is easier, unlike chasing LR3 vinegar down with BAC.

 

[latviantower]

Another vote for subq:

Unlocking the Power of IGF-1 LR3: The Ultimate Guide to Growth and Rec

As we delve into the ultimate guide, we will uncover the science behind IGF-1 LR3 and how it influences our body's processes. From boosting protein synthesis to enhancing cellular regeneration, the benefits are profound and promising.

swolverine.com

Though LR3 is used to target muscle growth (with or without HGH), I'm not in a rush to try it. As Andy was saying, HGH is more comprehensive. And HGH is easier, unlike chasing LR3 vinegar down with BAC.

I hear ya. “Hey bartender , I’ll take my vinegar shot with a Benzyl alcohol chaser, please!”

 

[ZippityDooDah]

I know basically nothing about HGH, IGF-1 or anything along those lines, but what I do find fascinating that's been brought up here is how a lot of conventional wisdom regarding injecting IM or SC seems to be under renewed scrutiny. A buddy who has been on TRT for many years recently changed to SC and hasn't stopped preaching about it being superior in every way. Not sure if there's any validity to that, but interesting nonetheless.

 

[Calm Logic]

On that note, some men are doing subq and don't even know it:

Previous data that used imaging (computed tomography or ultrasound) to estimate SC fat thickness and compared it with the length of the needle (or placement of the injectate) estimated that 12% to 85% of IM injections administered to men were actually SC (31-33).

Indeed, this might explain the observation that IM injections are less painful in overweight and obese men (34).

from Testosterone Therapy With Subcutaneous Injections: A Safe, Practical, and Reasonable Option

But if you have to use IM due to ISR issues with the carrier oil or volume, then the VG (ventrogluteal) muscle area, previously mentioned by @zpped for deep subq, is my favorite IM location. A nurse on YouTube known as Nurse Scott has a great video on IM for VG.

"The ventrogluteal site is one of the preferred and safest locations for IM injections because it has a thick muscle mass and is far from major nerves and blood vessels." (Google Gemini)