Best pep for building muscle and definition

[noggin]

Legitimate question, not trying to be mean, but why do people put any trust in the response from AI large language models? Do you actually know how they work? Have you ever noticed how regularly the top AI google result is just completely wrong?

I'm baffled at how many people talk about what Chat GPT told them and seem to have faith it will be correct. I'm not saying it isn't ever correct, but you can't put trust in it, you have to independently confrim any info. If you have to confirm anyway, what is the point in consulting it?

I take a chatgpt response with a little bit more faith than a tweet. It's not quite hard statistics or studies but it's good enough to work off of. What's great is that you can use ChatGPT to find sources (ask it to cite its sources) and you can get some good first hand material with much better accuracy in my experience than searching google scholar or pubmed.

 

[Lullabytreehugger]

Ok dude what you need is a steroid cycle to build muscle. Peptides nit gonna do that for you.
Run a test E or C base at 500mgs a week and stack Deca 400mgs a week and 400 mgs of EQ. Hit the gym regularly least 3-4times a week and run this cycle for 12 weeks. I guarantee you will put on 10-15kgs of lean muscle.

 

[noggin]

Ok dude what you need is a steroid cycle to build muscle. Peptides nit gonna do that for you.
Run a test E or C base at 500mgs a week and stack Deca 400mgs a week and 400 mgs of EQ. Hit the gym regularly least 3-4times a week and run this cycle for 12 weeks. I guarantee you will put on 10-15kgs of lean muscle.

I'd be careful advising people to do deca lol, IMO more risky than even Trenbolone. Neurotoxic as well; lowers IQ.

 

[scarywood75]

I've ordered some ipamorelin and tesamorelin (separately, I'll mix).

Anyone tried this combo?

I plan to do 300mcg IPA and 1mg tesa, 5 days on, 2 days off, for 3 months.

 

[hexagonal]

I've ordered some ipamorelin and tesamorelin (separately, I'll mix).

Anyone tried this combo?

I plan to do 300mcg IPA and 1mg tesa, 5 days on, 2 days off, for 3 months.

Yes, while on reta and TRT.

I saw 3lb of visceral fat reduction on 300mcg IPA/2mg tesa on a 5/2 10 week schedule.

I also saw a significant increase in my insulin levels.

 

[Lullabytreehugger]

Yeh I’ve done ipa/cjc non dac combo? I’ve also done tesamorelin but on its own. Also hgh on its own. Hgh gives the user such a great feeling. You name ive done it. Trt, mini blast, pct cycle, pedtides, etc

 

[rlane23]

Yes, while on reta and TRT.

I saw 3lb of visceral fat reduction on 300mcg IPA/2mg tesa on a 5/2 10 week schedule.

I also saw a significant increase in my insulin levels.

What was your diet like during the cycle and has your insulin returned to baseline?

 

[raw_oyster_eater]

tesa made me gain water weight. does ipamorelin do it too?

 

[hexagonal]

What was your diet like during the cycle and has your insulin returned to baseline?

Not super clean, but not awful. I was careful about spacing out the injections from eating as well.

tesa made me gain water weight. does ipamorelin do it too?

Likely. It will increase your HGH production.

 

[GnRHex]

I've ordered some ipamorelin and tesamorelin (separately, I'll mix).

Anyone tried this combo?

I plan to do 300mcg IPA and 1mg tesa, 5 days on, 2 days off, for 3 months.

I did CJC/IPa/Tesa which is not quite your program. I moved to Tesa in the latter half of the cycle. I am currently in a deload phase form the peps and my nervous system - I was able to push it in the gym every single workout, and my PR's kept going up.

My next cycle will look like the following:

Protocol
1. Split the protocol into three phases weeks 1-4, 5-8, 9-12.
2. Weeks 1-4
1. CJC 100ug Evening
2. IPA 200ug Evening
3. Weeks 5-8
1. CJC 100ug Morning, 100ug Evening
2. IPA 200ug Morning, 200ug Evening
4. Weeks 9-12
1. When working from home 2x a week:
1. CJC: 100ug Morning, Mid-Day Workout, Evening
2. IPA: 200ug 3x a day
2. When not at home, stick to schedule of weeks 5-8

I will do 5 days on, 2 days off, and this means each phase has 20 days.

1. Phase 1 : 1-4
1. CJC 100ug x 1 per day x 20 days = 20x 100= 2000mcg (2mg)
2. IPA 200ug x 1 per day x 20 days = 20 x 200 = 4000 mcg (4mg)
2. Phase 2 : 5-8
1. CJC 100ug x 2 per day x 20 = 4000mcg (4mg)
2. IPA 200ug x 2 per day x 20 = 8000mcg
3. Phase 3 : 9-12
1. CJC 100ug x 3 per day x 8 = 2400mcg (2.4mg)
2. IPA 200ug x 3 per day x 8 = 4800mcg
3. CJC 100ug x 2 per day x 12 = 2400mcg (2.4mg)
4. IPA 200ug x 2 per day x 12 = 4400mcg


I am sure these peps are nowhere near as potent as HGH or steroids, but my first run with these was definitely an experience. I wasnt as deliberate in my dosing or my calories. In this protocol, my calories will start at maintenance and I will track upwards with them over the 12 weeks. As my calories get close to 300 over maintenance I am intending to include AOD, to reduce the amount of fat gain. In the last phase I do intend to go full tilt with tesa at 1mg and have that continue after week 12 to 16 - I will reintroduce Reta at 12 too.

GnRHex.

 

[scarywood75]

I did CJC/IPa/Tesa which is not quite your program. I moved to Tesa in the latter half of the cycle. I am currently in a deload phase form the peps and my nervous system - I was able to push it in the gym every single workout, and my PR's kept going up.

My next cycle will look like the following:

Protocol
1. Split the protocol into three phases weeks 1-4, 5-8, 9-12.
2. Weeks 1-4
1. CJC 100ug Evening
2. IPA 200ug Evening
3. Weeks 5-8
1. CJC 100ug Morning, 100ug Evening
2. IPA 200ug Morning, 200ug Evening
4. Weeks 9-12
1. When working from home 2x a week:
1. CJC: 100ug Morning, Mid-Day Workout, Evening
2. IPA: 200ug 3x a day
2. When not at home, stick to schedule of weeks 5-8

I will do 5 days on, 2 days off, and this means each phase has 20 days.

1. Phase 1 : 1-4
1. CJC 100ug x 1 per day x 20 days = 20x 100= 2000mcg (2mg)
2. IPA 200ug x 1 per day x 20 days = 20 x 200 = 4000 mcg (4mg)
2. Phase 2 : 5-8
1. CJC 100ug x 2 per day x 20 = 4000mcg (4mg)
2. IPA 200ug x 2 per day x 20 = 8000mcg
3. Phase 3 : 9-12
1. CJC 100ug x 3 per day x 8 = 2400mcg (2.4mg)
2. IPA 200ug x 3 per day x 8 = 4800mcg
3. CJC 100ug x 2 per day x 12 = 2400mcg (2.4mg)
4. IPA 200ug x 2 per day x 12 = 4400mcg


I am sure these peps are nowhere near as potent as HGH or steroids, but my first run with these was definitely an experience. I wasnt as deliberate in my dosing or my calories. In this protocol, my calories will start at maintenance and I will track upwards with them over the 12 weeks. As my calories get close to 300 over maintenance I am intending to include AOD, to reduce the amount of fat gain. In the last phase I do intend to go full tilt with tesa at 1mg and have that continue after week 12 to 16 - I will reintroduce Reta at 12 too.

GnRHex.

Very good info thanks!

Yeah I don't take HGH either, where I live I can't get blood tests without prescription so I am gagging by the feel lol

 

[GnRHex]

Very good info thanks!

Yeah I don't take HGH either, where I live I can't get blood tests without prescription so I am gagging by the feel lol

I know people have opinions about "to build muscle? Steroids/HGH. Sure. And whilst on those you will absolutely have a different result, nobody is asking to cross the line into anabolics and that dangerous world. I can tell you I had a very good experience in my first push with these peptides, I definitely noticed things in the gym and out, and it was so good I decided I want to research again with them, going in a bit deeper, than trying something else - there are others, but they come with other issues like cortisol increase, insulin problems etc.

Good luck. I am starting that protocol above in Mid April.

I am not sure what your purpose is with researching these, but if it is to build muscle/burn fat, then I would also consider SLU-PP 332, BAM15 and heck....an SGLT-2 inhibitor with metformin. Problem with metformin is it is a limiter on mTOR, which is the opposite of what you want if you eat to build muscle on these peptides.

GnRHex.

 

[hexagonal]

AOD doesn't do anything. Mechanism of action that it works on in rodent studies does not exist in humans. Even the lead researcher that worked for the company that was developing the drug and ran their clinical trials has said this.

I also can't imagine a worldview where someone feels safer taking drugs with zero human studies like SLU-PP-332 or a mitochondrial uncoupler like BAM15 than HGH or AAS. There are AAS forums where discussion of uncouplers is banned because of how dangerous they are - places where people regularly run multiple grams of AAS per week.

I don't mean to be rude, but your improved gym performance on secreteagogues is almost certainly from your mental state rather than anything chemical from them, too. Even higher dose HGH is a long term thing - muscle mass increases from HGH alone is quite minimal without the feedback loops from AAS usage, and primarily functions based on satellite cell proliferation. These aren't short term impacts and HGH lacks the CNS adaptations that some AAS have that allows for short term rapid strength growth.

 

[GnRHex]

AOD doesn't do anything. Mechanism of action that it works on in rodent studies does not exist in humans. Even the lead researcher that worked for the company that was developing the drug and ran their clinical trials has said this.

I also can't imagine a worldview where someone feels safer taking drugs with zero human studies like SLU-PP-332 or a mitochondrial uncoupler like BAM15 than HGH or AAS. There are AAS forums where discussion of uncouplers is banned because of how dangerous they are - places where people regularly run multiple grams of AAS per week.

I don't mean to be rude, but your improved gym performance on secreteagogues is almost certainly from your mental state rather than anything chemical from them, too. Even higher dose HGH is a long term thing - muscle mass increases from HGH alone is quite minimal without the feedback loops from AAS usage, and primarily functions based on satellite cell proliferation. These aren't short term impacts and HGH lacks the CNS adaptations that some AAS have that allows for short term rapid strength growth.

Thats a lot of conjecture and assumptions.

Never make assumptions.

 

[hexagonal]

Thats a lot of conjecture and assumptions.

Never make assumptions.

It is neither conjecture or assumptions.

AOD: https://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2013/07/26/3811053.htm

If there was anyone that could speak to whether or not AOD did anything, it would be the guy they're quoting - Gary Wittert

"In mouse studies, AOD-9604 was shown to break down fat and prevent weight gain, but it was also shown that this effect over the longer term was dependent on a specific receptor," he says.

"When you give AOD-9604 to mice that are deficient in this receptor the weight-losing effect is lost."

"It's not surprising that AOD-9604 doesn't work in humans because the receptor on which it appears to be dependent is not the same in mice and humans."

It is not conjecture or assumption to point out that SLU-PP-332 has had no human trials, and BAM-15 is in the early stages of phase 1 human trials with no results. It is not conjecture or assumption to point out that uncouplers are a very dangerous class of drugs responsible for many human deaths. Even getting through phase 1 trials is no indication of safety - we were quite excited about azalaprag on here after it got through phase 1, but phase 2 trials had to be called off early because of the health risks seen in participants.

It is not conjecture or assumption to discuss how HGH works, and that secretagogues are not going to have a stronger effect than higher doses of the exogenous version of the hormone they help you produce endogenously.

AAS and exogenous HGH have very well understood safety profiles as well as knowledge on how to mitigate the health risks and what to watch for. Are they perfectly safe? Of course not. Far from it! But neither are uncouplers. And we have no clue about SLU-PP-332.

I'm not suggesting anyone hop on a cycle. I am hesitant to recommend much of anything to anyone on here because I am conscious of the risks involved, and know I am not an expert. I would recommend taking a similarly cautious approach rather than blithely recommending people taking drugs with completely unknown safety profiles with no disclaimer, and especially before recommending people taking drugs with known safety concerns.

 

[AndyPanda]

What I have been reading leads me to believe that Winstrol is what will get you shredded, but is a steroid so it depends on your risk level. I don’t think a peptide exists that will make anyone look like their skin has been vacuum sealed on their body.

 

[raw_oyster_eater]

What I have been reading leads me to believe that Winstrol is what will get you shredded, but is a steroid so it depends on your risk level. I don’t think a peptide exists that will make anyone look like their skin has been vacuum sealed on their body.

this. i split up a 25 mg winny into like 6 pieces and take microdoses and my stomach does seem to flatten out in a week or 2. i don't see how it could be that bad at low doses.

 

[GnRHex]

AOD doesn't do anything. Mechanism of action that it works on in rodent studies does not exist in humans. Even the lead researcher that worked for the company that was developing the drug and ran their clinical trials has said this.

If you research this, the conclusion on AOD was that it wasnt conclusive if it had the same efficacy in humans, but it wasnt concluded that it had none.

It is neither conjecture or assumptions.

AOD: https://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2013/07/26/3811053.htm

If there was anyone that could speak to whether or not AOD did anything, it would be the guy they're quoting - Gary Wittert


It is not conjecture or assumption to point out that SLU-PP-332 has had no human trials, and BAM-15 is in the early stages of phase 1 human trials with no results. It is not conjecture or assumption to point out that uncouplers are a very dangerous class of drugs responsible for many human deaths. Even getting through phase 1 trials is no indication of safety - we were quite excited about azalaprag on here after it got through phase 1, but phase 2 trials had to be called off early because of the health risks seen in participants.

It is not conjecture or assumption to discuss how HGH works, and that secretagogues are not going to have a stronger effect than higher doses of the exogenous version of the hormone they help you produce endogenously.

AAS and exogenous HGH have very well understood safety profiles as well as knowledge on how to mitigate the health risks and what to watch for. Are they perfectly safe? Of course not. Far from it! But neither are uncouplers. And we have no clue about SLU-PP-332.

I'm not suggesting anyone hop on a cycle. I am hesitant to recommend much of anything to anyone on here because I am conscious of the risks involved, and know I am not an expert. I would recommend taking a similarly cautious approach rather than blithely recommending people taking drugs with completely unknown safety profiles with no disclaimer, and especially before recommending people taking drugs with known safety concerns.

The conjecture was on my experience. You utterly ignored the fact I shared breaking PRa etc. You didnt think to inquire for more data. Thats conjecture.

To your orher points. Sure.

 

[hexagonal]

If you research this, the conclusion on AOD was that it wasnt conclusive if it had the same efficacy in humans, but it wasnt concluded that it had none.


The conjecture was on my experience. You utterly ignored the fact I shared breaking PRa etc. You didnt think to inquire for more data. Thats conjecture.

To your orher points. Sure.

"This showed quite clearly there was no effect on weight"

Read the article. It is conclusive that it does nothing in humans. The receptor it relies on just doesn't work the same. There is no method of action.

I didn't ignore the fact that you were breaking PRs - I explicitly discussed them as being almost certainly a placebo effect. How am I "utterly ignoring" something I explicitly talk about?

Secretagogues do not cause a strength increase like that. Higher quantities of exogenous HGH that result in significantly higher IGF-1 levels do not cause a strength increase like that. We understand the mechanisms around HGH increasing muscle mass over time, we understand the CNS effects of steroids that cause acute strength increase, and we understand that there is not overlap there. Gym performance depends on a huge variety of factors, and just thinking you're on drugs that can increase you performance will increase your performance. The placebo effect is as real there as it is anywhere else.

 

[hexagonal]

What I have been reading leads me to believe that Winstrol is what will get you shredded, but is a steroid so it depends on your risk level. I don’t think a peptide exists that will make anyone look like their skin has been vacuum sealed on their body.

Yeah, the aesthetic effects of winstrol are massive. It's super standard in bodybuilder contest prep cycles.