"HCG monotherapy" – I tried it so you didn't have to!

Calm Logic said:
Arguably, most of us don't need a testosterone boost anyway. I am happy with my normal testosterone level, using just reta now. Formerly hypogonadal before losing 50+ pounds
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Need and want are two separate things.

My outlook is, life is too short not to be optimized. My levels prior were 650, and man life is just better 900-1200. Life is just better. More assertive and cofindent, although arguably never had an issue and some might prefer me more docile so they aren't challenged, lol. Sex drive, borderline problematic and may or may not ask a few different women to marry me every day. Better recovery, better cardio, and just better outlook on life.
 
BlueDog55 said:
A little off topic but still kinda on topic...lol!
Do you guys know if Enclomiphene is helpfull when you are already on test?
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I think that would create too much testosterone, depending on doses, of course. HCG is the thing that is often prescribed alongside testosterone therapy, because when your body detects too much testosterone, it shuts down its own endogenous production. HCG is the thing that tells your body to keep creating it.
 
When it comes to fertility and actively trying to conceive, a more intensive HCG protocol may be necessary, despite the hormonal side effects it can cause. However, if the goal is simply to maintain testicular function over the long term, a low dose twice a week is usually sufficient, depending on the HCG concentration. I'm currently taking HCG 5,000 IU, injecting 10 units twice a week.
 
jamesprt said:
When it comes to fertility and actively trying to conceive, a more intensive HCG protocol may be necessary, despite the hormonal side effects it can cause. However, if the goal is simply to maintain testicular function over the long term, a low dose twice a week is usually sufficient, depending on the HCG concentration. I'm currently taking HCG 5,000 IU, injecting 10 units twice a week.
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10 units isn't a dosage lol. We have no idea how much you're taking.
 
gusterbuster said:
My outlook is, life is too short not to be optimized.
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Of course, not optimal for longevity. Hence the YOLO argument all the time (and trying to manage higher hematocrit or explain it away, and the lack of cardiovascular imaging at Meso). The ideal would be something optimal for lifespan as well, which is more the domain of peptides.

Certainly, long-term supraphysiological testosterone is a known cardiovascular risk at the cellular and structural level. The only question is how much, even with perfect bloodwork.
 
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Calm Logic said:
Of course, not optimal for longevity. Hence the YOLO argument all the time (and trying to manage higher hematocrit or explain it away, and the lack of cardiovascular imaging at Meso). The ideal would be something optimal for lifespan as well, which is more the domain of peptides.

Certainly, long-term supraphysiological testosterone is a known cardiovascular risk at the cellular and structural level. The only question is how much, even with perfect bloodwork.
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There are the performance optimal and longevity optimal. I aim to be where that ven diagram intersects. Like castration in animals, shows longer life spans. I prefer to be able to split my partner like a log up until the end.

Where you land on the performance/longevity spectrum is for each individual to decide.
 
gusterbuster said:
There are the performance optimal and longevity optimal. I aim to be where that ven diagram intersects. Like castration in animals, shows longer life spans.

Where you land on the performance/longevity spectrum is for each individual to decide.
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Well said, wow. I started to say something similar but didn't know how to word it regarding how an individual might prefer to balance risk and quality of life.
 
The problem is partly marketing, with lots of marketing for testosterone and not much else. The whole low-T industry has made everything seem hormone related. As guys get older, endothelial function one way to boost energy, such as by diet, 5 mg daily of Cialis, exercise as a vasodilator, etc. Better blood flow also helps with recovery.

But if you want to be dependent on sourcing controlled substances for decades (rather than on boosting your body's production of testosterone to some degree), knock yourself out.
 
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Calm Logic said:
The problem is partly marketing, with lots of marketing for testosterone and not much else. The whole low T industry has made everything seem hormone related. As guys get older, endothelial function one way to boost energy, such as by diet, 5 mg daily of Cialis, exercise as a vasodilator, etc. Better blood flow also helps with recovery.

But if you want to be dependent on controlled substances for decades, knock yourself out.
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You might enjoy the "life sausage." Peter Watts ought to be right up your alley.


As far as a problem... I don't know that there is a problem. I haven't tried boosting myself to maximum reference range yet. If I get there and don't feel any different, I suppose we can say it's overhyped.
 
Calm Logic said:
But if you want to be dependent on sourcing controlled substances for decades, knock yourself out.
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I dont understand this argument. I have a shit thyroid and will need to take that med daily for the rest of my life. Oh no, a few extra shots a week. A person with adhd is likely dependent on a schedule 2 drug.

Not saying this applies to anyone here, but all the people I've met through my travels, interested in longevity as in maximum life span, are afraid to die because they have an unlived life. Noting noble, like to see their kids graduate and have grandkids. They are full of regrets. Not taking risks. Didn't ask out that girl, didn't go after that promotion. Or fell into a life dictated by parents or society.
 
birdwhacker said:
There isn't anything to understand because it's an ideaological argument.
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And to further illustrate how ridiculous the argument is. We are on a glp1 message board. A majority of us will be dependent on a glp1, sourced through the Grey market for the rest of our lives.
 
Black market is very different from grey market.

The issue to me isn't longevity as much as healthspan per se. But they are usually tightly coupled in practice. And avoiding supraphysiological testosterone is one way to ensure healthspan. Many guys cannot resist going from TRT to TRT+. It is a slippery slope, which is part of the reason it is a controlled substance.
 
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gusterbuster said:
And to further illustrate how ridiculous the argument is. We are on a glp1 message board. A majority of us will be dependent on a glp1, sourced through the Grey market for the rest of our lives.
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Personally I'm looking forward to getting off of the GLP and keeping myself healthy naturally if possible. I'll be happy to use it as needed.

I get where the guy is coming from, and that's a perspective that I absolutely share when it comes to antidepressants, stimulants for ADHD, meds to manage conditions that could be controlled through lifestyle (high cholesterol, depression, ADHD, high blood pressure). But it doesn't really have a place in this discussion.

For one thing, the idea that if you even look at testosterone, you have to be on it for life, that just doesn't seem to be true. You can PCT off at practically any point, especially if you keep your nuts active with HCG. Granted I'm sure the risk of shutdown after 10+ years on is real... But that gives you a lot of time to figure out what you want.

For another thing, testosterone is something that already exists in your body, unlike prozac or adderall. People writing it off strike me as not dissimilar from people who write off vitamins and supplemets because "your body would make what it needs."

Calm Logic said:
Black market is very different from grey market.
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Having used both extensively, no, it really isn't, and especially not for schedule 3 and 4 substances.

You can order testosterone to your door with a credit card right now just like anything else. Not to mention restrictions on it will likely become even more lax. Not to mention clinics will happily dose you up if you need to be legal.

You're just as likely to face consequences for ordering grey market peps as black market oils, for that matter.
 
Calm Logic said:
Many guys cannot resist going from TRT to TRT+. It is a slippery slope, which is part of the reason it is a controlled substance
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Do you have experience with trt clinics? From all the people I know on trt, if they weren't hypogonadal, their clinic aimed for 900ish and were fine if you landed 1200ish assuming hemocrit, e2, psa, etc were acceptable.

And those ranges arent trt+ levels and usually achieved with doses between 120-180mg test cyp.

If you're talking higher than this, this is strawman argument as I mentioned liking being at 900-1000 over 650.

And if slippery slope, their cruise dose will always be available, legally. I think you're trying real hard to make an argument where one doesn't exit.
 
GLPs are endorsed by the medical community at large. Testosterone for "optimization" is not. You can get compouned oxandrolone legally too with telehealth, which is insane outside of being a burn patient.
 
gusterbuster said:
For someone who has logic in your username, you sure love logical fallacies.
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Ok, I went too far here and thats a personal attack. I apologize.

Currently completed midlife crisis and on here frisky before meeting up with my 23yo Latina gf as a 38 year old lol.
 
Calm Logic said:
GLPs are endorsed by the medical community at large. Testosterone for "optimization" is not. You can get compouned oxandrolone legally too with telehealth, which is insane outside of being a burn patient.
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Funny, HRT for menopausal women who have stopped producing estrogen doesn't seem to be endorsed by the medical community at large.

The medical community at large still endorses Adderall for children. That tells you most of what you need to know.
 
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