Is 4mg+ really the key?

[Vriende]

What have you noticed since starting Creatine? I have been thinking about starting it myself.

They likely are referring to water weight. The water retention associated with creatine is mostly intracellular, meaning water stays inside the muscle cells and the muscles look fuller and more hydrated.
I take creatine and just built it into my expectations when I started it that what I saw on the scale would slow for a time due to water weight.

 

[woundcarping]

What have you noticed since starting Creatine? I have been thinking about starting it myself.

Perhaps a bit of a “pump” but no feels.


My DEXA before and after being on creatine for just over a month showed .3lb difference. With that, my weight loss trajectory went funkier than expected, so I stopped creatine Wednesday and stacked Sema Thursday. It’s too early for today’s official weigh in, but I’m 5+lb lighter than last Wednesday.

I have another DEXA scheduled next month, it’ll be interesting to see the results.

 

[GLPFrodo]

I’ve seen a lot of back and forth on whether or not 4mg or more is where you truly get the benefits of Retatrutide compared to Trizepitide. To my understanding the argument supports that the Glucogon agonist doesn’t really get activated until you hit the 4mg+ a week. I’ve titrated up from .5mg to 4mg over a course of an couple of months and have been cruising there for about 3 weeks and haven’t really noticed anything different effect wise (Other than the continuous benefits of Reta obviously lol). Can anyone share their own experience?

From what ive found in a couple studies, 4mg is the dose at which the average Glucagon levels over the week are equal to your "native pulse level while fasting". 2mg is half that, and 1mg is half that again. 8mg is not double however, but is an increase.

 

[ultima thule]

Actually I titrated to 4mg last Sunday. And maybe it is just in my mind only, but got the feeling it was a severe boost. Started from 1mg and titrating 1mg every 3 weeks. Didn't feel much difference while increasing the dose before, but 4mg increase made it different. First of all, I have no cravings at all. It is Friday evening, and I ate much less, this week since Sunday. Beforhand I was getting slight cravings around Thursdays, but now not at all. Also was losing approx 1kg per week on the lower doses, this week I lost 1.7kg. Maybe it is coincidence, or a kind of placebo effect, but got a feeling there is something in the 4mg dose. And btw I do not have any crucial side effects since the very beginning on Reta and 4mg dose didn't change it. The only one I could name is a permanent constipation, but not as bad as I couldn't cope it. A lot of water and some fiber during the day helps enough...

 

[Kyli]

It's just my opinion, but I read the study that way that at about 4mg / Week you will start to profit from the Glucagon Receptors. But... And now tbh. with 4mg 1x Week you have a Peak of 7.2mg and about 3.2mg as a average level. If you dose 2x week, you have a lower peak, but in the meantime a higher average dose. And I don't know, if you need this high peak dose to activate the receptors. I heard from many people, that they get tachycardia after the injection. And this is because of the glucagon activation. That's why I don't know, if you actually need the 7mg peak.

Currently I titrated up to 2mg 2x week, and I have currently no idea, if the receptors are triggered and the liver is burning IT's fat.

But IMHO you should not go over 4+ mg as long as possible to be able to titrate up, if you need to. Or combine it with Cargi.

 

[BNLFL]

But IMHO you should not go over 4+ mg as long as possible to be able to titrate up, if you need to. Or combine it with Cargi.

And why's that? I did 6 weeks at 4mg until not much happening. I'm currently on 9mg.

 

[Kyli]

And why's that? I did 6 weeks at 4mg until not much happening. I'm currently on 9mg.

Exactly this is the reason why... Where do you want to go from here? To 18mg? 12mg? People in the studies had severe side effects from higher dosage. Not just nausea but effects on the skin, they had to "fight" with antihistamines.

I think, the better idea is to find out, why "nothing" happened. And what is "nothing". No hunger suppression? Then Cargi might be the was to go. Or even Triz.

If nothing is happening, it might be, that the GLP-1 receptors are over saturated / stressed. And they protect themselves from Reta.

 

[BNLFL]

Exactly this is the reason why... Where do you want to go from here? To 18mg? 12mg? People in the studies had severe side effects from higher dosage. Not just nausea but effects on the skin, they had to "fight" with antihistamines.

My next stop is maintenance. I've never had those any of those side effects.
Are you a doctor?

 

[woundcarping]

Where do you want to go from here? To 18mg? 12mg? People in the studies had severe side effects from higher dosage. Not just nausea but effects on the skin, they had to "fight" with antihistamines…

18mg isn’t special for me.

My allodynia was at much lower doses, minor, and transient… no fighting required.

 

[ilikeshikes]

I’ve seen a lot of back and forth on whether or not 4mg or more is where you truly get the benefits of Retatrutide compared to Trizepitide. To my understanding the argument supports that the Glucogon agonist doesn’t really get activated until you hit the 4mg+ a week. I’ve titrated up from .5mg to 4mg over a course of an couple of months and have been cruising there for about 3 weeks and haven’t really noticed anything different effect wise (Other than the continuous benefits of Reta obviously lol). Can anyone share their own experience?

This video from Dr. Alex Tatum,(an actual MD), does a great job of explaining the dosing of Reta based on the clinical trial findings. Of course, ymmv depending on your body and your goals. I haven’t started yet, but when I do I’m going to ramp up to 8mg over 4-6 months. I have about 80 lbs to lose. Reta dosing

 

[SVT810E]

Exactly this is the reason why... Where do you want to go from here? To 18mg? 12mg? People in the studies had severe side effects from higher dosage. Not just nausea but effects on the skin, they had to "fight" with antihistamines.

If you’re having serious issues with side effects then your dose is too high for you right now and you should strongly reconsider your dose. But lots of people don’t have those issues, and there’s not any good reason not to go up if the drug is well tolerated. Trying to minimize your dose early on is not going to change where you end up plateauing.

 

[Kyli]

If you’re having serious issues with side effects then your dose is too high for you right now and you should strongly reconsider your dose. But lots of people don’t have those issues, and there’s not any good reason not to go up if the drug is well tolerated. Trying to minimize your dose early on is not going to change where you end up plateauing.

🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️
Except for the reasons I mentioned above...

Otherwise there is no reason to increase the dose after arround 4mg / Week.

 

[birdwhacker]

For me, 4mg was too much. I started at 6' 236lb, now down to 200ish at the 15ish week mark.

I had to drop my dose from 2mg every 3 days (4.66mg/wk) to 1.8mg every 4 days (3.2mg/wk).

4mg was just too effective and I couldn't get enough food in.

It seems heavier doses might work best for heavier people

 

[LabRatts]

I’ve seen a lot of back and forth on whether or not 4mg or more is where you truly get the benefits of Retatrutide compared to Trizepitide. To my understanding the argument supports that the Glucogon agonist doesn’t really get activated until you hit the 4mg+ a week. I’ve titrated up from .5mg to 4mg over a course of an couple of months and have been cruising there for about 3 weeks and haven’t really noticed anything different effect wise (Other than the continuous benefits of Reta obviously lol). Can anyone share their own experience?

No it isn’t.

 

[BNLFL]

🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️
Except for the reasons I mentioned above...

Otherwise there is no reason to increase the dose after arround 4mg / Week.

You joined 12 days ago and are now an expert on this subject vs the guys who've been here a while, been on Reta a while and had success with these bigger doses. Trust me, it's nothing at 9mg. I blasted myself and wife with this dose this morning with zero side effects. May I ask how long you've been on Reta, and you age?

 

[SVT810E]

Otherwise there is no reason to increase the dose after arround 4mg / Week.

Presumably people would increase their dose past 4mg/week because they’d like to lose 28% of their bodyweight rather than 19% (on average)?

 

[Kyli]

You joined 12 days ago and are now an expert on this subject vs the guys who've been here a while, been on Reta a while and had success with these bigger doses.

So because I joined "just" 12 Days ago, I can't have an informed opinion?? And "experts" who are pinning whatever they want without knowing the biochemistry behind it, are of course the experts - pathetic!

Well, do whatever you want. I've justified my opinion, why I think it's a bad idea to rush the dose if not needed.

Presumably people would increase their dose past 4mg/week because they’d like to lose 28% of their bodyweight rather than 19% (on average)?

Then you are reading the statistic wrong. The statistic does not say, that you will loose 19% (on average), but in a certain time period. I don't say, that 4mg should be the final maintenance dose. But that you should use the lowest dose, that is still working. Because a lot of people in the Study had severe side effects on higher doses. So the best way is to stay as low as possible, after about 4mg/week is reached.

So you have enough room to titrate up with less possible side effects.