Lullabytreehugger
GLP-1 Enthusiast
Tried to search for ss31 protocols but couldnt find any proper dosage guides.
Can anyone help me with dosages and frequency?
Can anyone help me with dosages and frequency?
SS-31 protocols?
- Thread starter Lullabytreehugger
- Start date
Sunflower
GLP-1 Apprentice
Jay Campbell recommends 500mcg in the morning, 5 days per wk, for an 8wk cycle.
raw_oyster_eater
lemon bottle brewer
any real reason it has to be cycled?
Science on SS-31 and MOTS-C is pretty spotty, but my understanding is that the general belief is that there's just not benefit to being on it continually because mitochondrial function returns to normal.
As for the dosing protocol, results are all over. I'm doing 2mg 5x a week because it makes it nice and tidy to go through 1 vial a week, but I have no idea if that's a proper dosage. So far I don't have any results to report from taking it.
RubiJeep_Girl
Recently Joined
This is the one I found and was going to follow, I've also read the Jay Campbell one.
Attachments
RubiJeep_Girl
Recently Joined
There's another cheat sheet, I found; its detailed with most of the peptides. I have the Hunter Williams version too, somewhere.
Attachments
There are many variations of this protocol. A typical one seems to be ss31 at 4mg for some period of time - 21 days, 28 days, 1 month, 2 months - some do it daily, some 5 days on and 2 days off. Phase 2 includes ss-31 with an overlap of Mots-C, 5mg 3x a week, that runs 4 weeks or 8 weeks, about 3 or so weeks into taking both ss-31 and mots-c, you drop the ss-31 and keep the mots-s, some keep the mots-c at 5mg 3x a week, others change it to 10mg once a week, then mots-c drops off, and the next pep in the triad is NAD+ 2x a week or 3x a week, with a short and fast titration up, starting at 25mg for a week, then 50mg, then jumping to 100mg, and the mots-c and NAD+ are taken on different days. It is also suggested that with the ss-31 phase, TMG is used as well, at 1000mg a day (it's a supplement) and with the NAD+ phase it is suggested that Methyl Guard is used - it's also a supplement. I've made my own personalized protocol for each phase of this, and if you'd like a copy, happy to DM it to you. I'm starting lower and slower in each phase.
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I was thinking of using this one - I've just started the ss-31 protocol this past Sunday 12/1, but decided not to start with NAD+ because I'd like to feel, if anything to feel, with the SS-31, and then with the mots-c, and I thought it was possible/likely that the NAD+ might overshadow the other two peps in terms of whatever I felt.
RubiJeep_Girl
Recently Joined
RubiJeep_Girl
Recently Joined
Yea, I started the NAD+ last week; i wanted to start one at a time to see how I felt too. This week I added AOD, so far so good. The NAD is only with my boot camp days. I'll do this cycle for 8wks and then off. Then I'll restart with the SS-31 and MOTS-c.
Love to hear about AOD! I kind of wanted to start with NAD+ to feel that burst of energy, but went the other way!
RubiJeep_Girl
Recently Joined
Haha! its day #2 of AOD, so stay tunned. I'm trying to do 6wks off of Tirz before starting Reta but I wanted something that had some weight loss results in the interim. So I did NAD for the energy effects and then heard about AOD (reduce body fat, preventing new fat growth, fat burner, weight loss; sign me up), so I got single vials of both to test.
Valerie
GLP-1 Enthusiast
I was researching "increased energy" in general, as well as to offset Tirz maintenance fatigue.
Because NAD and the SS3/MOTS are both indicated for energy but do so in different ways - I too stopped the NAD before trying the ss31/mots c protocol to see the difference.
I actually skipped the ss31 (mito membrane repair) and went straight to the mots c mito rev up as I've read some cycle between Nad and Mots C.
RS had great results from Nad; increased energy, focus, mood and much better sleep.
Mots C was like a rush of energy from a double/triple caffeine drink with a slow release. Started with a very low dose. Lasted about 5 hrs. Side effects: very similar to working out in a gym doing cardio.
This was a definite indication RS mitochondria have room for boost !
Great option for pre workout!
@RubiJeep_Girl I'm looking forward to hearing your SS31 research results!
RubiJeep_Girl
Recently Joined
I tried MOTSc for about two weeks but didn't have any increased energy or anything. Then I realized I should have started with SS-31 first to prime my system so to speak so I stopped it LOL..... That's around the same time of my Tirz stall aka its never really worked for me.
So I came up with the plan to do a cycle of NAD & AOD between cycling off the Tirz. I do notice increased energy with the NAD+ as well, I was impressed since I've never had consistent responses from Sema or TIrz, FINALLY something my body is working with.
I'll start Reta January first, as long as I make it that long. Then I'll drop the AOD mid January and start the SS31, followed by the MOTSc....... I'll need a calendar to keep these things straight lol
Valerie
GLP-1 Enthusiast
So glad it broke the stall AND increased the energy!! Wow !
So funny and interesting how the same pep will hit differently! love to hear and learn from different results!
Thanks for sharing that !
Edit ::yes the calendar. Can't say I have a formal one, except the Shotsy app. I need one like that where I can record other Peps as well; haven't found one.
I'd love to correlate the plotter with how something new impacts things. I keep "notes" everyday on what when how and outcome 🙂... something more visual would be nice.
Lullabytreehugger
GLP-1 Enthusiast
Thank you all for your replies 😊
As Ming mentioned, the protocols are all over the place. Other considerations are age and current needs. I’m older, sniffed my fair share of rubber cement, and my energy levels are way down from 20 years ago so I will develop a protocol accordingly with adjustments as I work thru the plan.
Sunflower
GLP-1 Apprentice
Did you start with only SS31? Or have you done MotsC before? Another theory is that if you don’t have major mitochondrial damage, starting with SS31 may not always be necessary if you want to do MotsC.
Started with SS-31
Being fat is apparently a major risk factor for mitochondrial damage, so I figured I should give it a shot. I have no idea what the actual state of my mitochondria are, though.
GimmeABreak
Rabbit-hole Explorer
I have had great results with SS-31. Tons of energy and countered the Tirz fatigue.
I pinned 4-5mg in the AM daily for most of October and November after titrating up to to 4mg over about two weeks. Some days I would talso take a 3mg booster dose in the afternoon. I added MOTs-C for about 3-4 weeks but noticed no additional benefits. I am currently taking a week off from peps (except Tirz) but will likely start it back up again next week.
My opinion (with zero medical/scientific training to back this up) based on reading feedback on the forums is if you old and didn't live a healthy lifestyle for most of your life you will get benefit from SS-31 (I'm 58). If you are young or middle-aged and mostly lived clean, it will probably be a nothing-burger for you.
I pinned 4-5mg in the AM daily for most of October and November after titrating up to to 4mg over about two weeks. Some days I would talso take a 3mg booster dose in the afternoon. I added MOTs-C for about 3-4 weeks but noticed no additional benefits. I am currently taking a week off from peps (except Tirz) but will likely start it back up again next week.
My opinion (with zero medical/scientific training to back this up) based on reading feedback on the forums is if you old and didn't live a healthy lifestyle for most of your life you will get benefit from SS-31 (I'm 58). If you are young or middle-aged and mostly lived clean, it will probably be a nothing-burger for you.
Blake41
Recently Joined
Curious what are the doses per week when stacking NAD, MOTS-C and tirz? What did you find is working for you?
I'm experimenting with 10mg ss31 alternating with 10mg motsc. In a study with ss31 the doses are very high. They gave 40mg to kids over 40kg body weight for condition described here.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Use of Elamipretide in patients assigned treatment in the compassionate use program: Case series in pediatric patients with rare orphan diseases - PMC
Several mitochondrial diseases are caused by pathogenic variants that impair membrane phospholipid remodeling, with no FDA‐approved therapies. Elamipretide targets the inner mitochondrial membrane where it binds to cardiolipin, resulting in improved ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Blake41
Recently Joined
Do you think ss31 is needed with/before mots-c?I'm experimenting with 10mg ss31 alternating with 10mg motsc. In a study with ss31 the doses are very high. They gave 40mg to kids over 40kg body weight for condition described here.
Use of Elamipretide in patients assigned treatment in the compassionate use program: Case series in pediatric patients with rare orphan diseases - PMC
Several mitochondrial diseases are caused by pathogenic variants that impair membrane phospholipid remodeling, with no FDA‐approved therapies. Elamipretide targets the inner mitochondrial membrane where it binds to cardiolipin, resulting in improved ...
I have no idea. I did ss31 4 weeks 10mg and then did motsc with Dr seeds protocol and saw no effect. I'm trying to alternate them now and see if there's any difference. Maybe my mitochondria is just fine though.
RubiJeep_Girl
Recently Joined
I only did two weeks of MOTSc and didn’t really feel any affects, I did 5mg every few days. Then I read you should start with SS31 first, so I stopped it.
Now with NAD+ twice weekly, I felt it during my workouts. I felt I could keep going, I could go longer. It’s a little boost of energy without feeling jittery. This week I’m increasing to three times a week.
I’ll pick up the SS31 & MOTSc in February after I finish this cycle of AOD and NAD+.
I've just started my 3d week of SS31 today. I stopped using lipo-c with NAD+ (Pegasus from Kimera Chems) for a few weeks before starting ss31 because I wanted to feel whatever there might be to feel with ss31, without external energy. And I'm very glad that I did. I plan on doing the three stages of this protocol - ss31/mots-c/Nad+ - in that order - and either for 8 weeks each or 12 weeks each. Though I have no scientific data to point to, I think that using ss31 not only cleans the mitochondria (whether you "feel" anything or not, it's working behind the scenes), but I think it also primes the cells for all the other peps you might research afterwards. I am doing ss31 daily, started low at 1mg, and have moved up to 3mg. I like how I feel - good clean energy and though I'm usually very focused, I do feel like my focus has become even more intense! Though the typical ss31 protocol seems to be 4mg off the bat, daily, running for 21 or 28 days or 1 month or 2 months or more, I wanted to move up slowly and I'm glad I am doing that too - so I started at 1mg, moved to 1.5mg, 2mg, 2.5mg, and now at 3mg over fourteen days. I think I'll stay at 3mg for the whole of this week and then reassess, staying at 3mg or moving up to 3.5mg. Once I decide whether to run ss31 for 8 or 12 weeks, I will add in mots-c about 3 weeks before I finish ss-31. The typical protocol for mots seems to be 5mg 3x a week, but I intend to start low there too, at 1mg again, to see how I react. I'll run mots-c, and increase dosing as feels right to me, drop the ss-31, continue the mots- and either at 8 weeks or 12, I'll introduce the NAD+, and again, I'll start low, not at 25mg with a fast titration schedule up, but at 10mg 3x a week, and move up slowly as I see fit. I can see keeping ss31 as a regular part of my pep protocols.
scarywood75
Scarlett Johansson
More info on ss31 and what you may have experienced (generated with scite.ai):
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Based on the references provided, the key points about the use of SS31 peptide are:
- SS31 is a mitochondria-targeted antioxidant peptide that can inhibit apoptosis and oxidative stress by maintaining mitochondrial structure and function (1, 2, 3, 4). It has been shown to protect against various conditions involving mitochondrial dysfunction, such as sepsis-induced muscle weakness (2), atrial fibrillation (5), high glucose-induced neuronal damage (3), and tert-butylhydroperoxide-induced oxidative damage in retinal cells (4).
- SS31 has also been used in combination with other drugs or nanoparticles to enhance their therapeutic effects, such as in the treatment of myocardial ischemia-reperfusion injury (1, 6), Alzheimer's disease (7), and abdominal aortic aneurysm (8).
- The protective effects of SS31 have been attributed to its ability to reduce mitochondrial ROS production, stabilize mitochondrial membrane potential, and modulate signaling pathways like the p38 MAPK pathway (9, 10).
In summary, the references indicate that SS31 is a promising mitochondria-targeted antioxidant with a wide range of therapeutic applications, particularly in conditions involving mitochondrial dysfunction and oxidative stress.
References:
1. Zhang, Z., Chen, Z., Yang, L., Zhang, J., Li, Y., Li, C., … & Xiao, W. (2022). Platelet membrane–encapsulated msns loaded with ss31 peptide alleviate myocardial ischemia-reperfusion injury. *Journal of Functional Biomaterials, 13*(4), 181. https://doi.org/10.3390/jfb13040181
2. Supinski, G., Wang, L., Schroder, E., & Callahan, L. (2020). Ss31, a mitochondrially targeted antioxidant, prevents sepsis-induced reductions in diaphragm strength and endurance. *Journal of Applied Physiology, 128*(3), 463-472. https://doi.org/10.1152/japplphysiol.00240.2019
3. Cao, M., Jiang, J., Du, Y., & Yan, P. (2012). Mitochondria-targeted antioxidant attenuates high glucose-induced p38 mapk pathway activation in human neuroblastoma cells. *Molecular Medicine Reports, 5*(4), 929-934. https://doi.org/10.3892/mmr.2012.746
4. Ma, W., Zhu, X., Ding, X., Li, T., Hu, Y., Hu, X., … & Tang, S. (2015). Protective effects of ss31 on t-bhp induced oxidative damage in 661w cells. *Molecular Medicine Reports, 12*(4), 5026-5034. https://doi.org/10.3892/mmr.2015.4055
5. Wiersma, M., Marion, D., Wüst, R., Houtkooper, R., Zhang, D., Groot, N., … & Brundel, B. (2019). Mitochondrial dysfunction underlies cardiomyocyte remodeling in experimental and clinical atrial fibrillation. *Cells, 8*(10), 1202. https://doi.org/10.3390/cells8101202
6. Li, F., Liu, D., Liu, M., Q, J., Zhang, B., Mei, Q., … & Zhou, S. (2022). Tregs biomimetic nanoparticle to reprogram inflammatory and redox microenvironment in infarct tissue to treat myocardial ischemia reperfusion injury in mice. *Journal of Nanobiotechnology, 20*(1). https://doi.org/10.1186/s12951-022-01445-2
7. Qian, K., Bao, X., Li, Y., Wang, P., Guo, Q., Yang, P., … & Zhang, Q. (2022). Cholinergic neuron targeting nanosystem delivering hybrid peptide for combinatorial mitochondrial therapy in Alzheimer’s disease. *ACS Nano, 16*(7), 11455-11472. https://doi.org/10.1021/acsnano.2c05795
8. Navas‐Madroñal, M., Almendra‐Pegueros, R., Puertas-Umbert, L., Jiménez‐Altayó, F., Julve, J., Pérez, B., … & Galán, M. (2023). Targeting mitochondrial stress with szeto‐schiller 31 prevents experimental abdominal aortic aneurysm: crosstalk with endoplasmic reticulum stress. *British Journal of Pharmacology, 180*(17), 2230-2249. https://doi.org/10.1111/bph.16077
9. Sakellariou, G., Pearson, T., Lightfoot, A., Nye, G., Wells, N., Giakoumaki, I., … & McArdle, A. (2016). Mitochondrial ros regulate oxidative damage and mitophagy but not age-related muscle fiber atrophy. *Scientific Reports, 6*(1). https://doi.org/10.1038/srep33944
10. Zhang, L., Feng, M., Wang, X., Zhang, H., Ding, J., Cheng, Z., … & Qian, L. (2021). Peptide szeto‑schiller 31 ameliorates doxorubicin‑induced cardiotoxicity by inhibiting the activation of the p38 mapk signaling pathway. *International Journal of Molecular Medicine, 47*(4). https://doi.org/10.3892/ijmm.2021.4896
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GimmeABreak
Rabbit-hole Explorer
I have been pinning SS-31 for about 10 weeks now. I also titrated up to 4mg over two weeks. Now I am at 4 or 5mg in the morning and some days I will take an additional 3-4mg in the afternoon. I am planning to stay on it until I no longer receive any benefit from it.
There have a few studies where patients were dosed 40mg per day for almost a year with no side effects beyond the occasional ISR. There was also no titration schedule mentioned in the studies which I thought was odd. I could not imaging 40mg right out of the gate....
I did about a three-week cycle of MOTs-C where I tried it with, and without SS-31 and did not feel anything from MOTs. I still have a few kits so I will probably try adding it back in the next few weeks.
Efficacy and Safety of Elamipretide in Individuals With Primary Mitochondrial Myopathy: The MMPOWER-3 Randomized Clinical Trial - PubMed
This study provides Class I evidence that elamipretide does not improve the 6MWT or fatigue at 24 weeks compared with placebo in patients with primary mitochondrial myopathy.
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
I appreciate all this - which I have as well! I think ss31 is up there, for me, with epithalon, kpv, ghk-cu, bpc157, tb4.
Love that you're still on the ss-31 - and titrated up over the 2 weeks, I remember reading how you were doing it, you'd gone up, then dropped back, then went back up. And love that you're feeling great from it obviously - and using up to 9mgs a day?! Also interesting - so many seem to only feel the mots-c and not the ss-31 - but also many only feel the ss31 and get no perceived "feels" from the mots. Look forward to your continued journey. And I am gratified to see you've been doing it for 10 weeks now - because my sense is that a longer cycle is more helpful, and do plan to do a 12 week cycle! QUESTION: at any point titrating up did you find the ss-31 interfered with getting to sleep at all - such as staying up later than intended?I have been pinning SS-31 for about 10 weeks now. I also titrated up to 4mg over two weeks. Now I am at 4 or 5mg in the morning and some days I will take an additional 3-4mg in the afternoon. I am planning to stay on it until I no longer receive any benefit from it.
There have a few studies where patients were dosed 40mg per day for almost a year with no side effects beyond the occasional ISR. There was also no titration schedule mentioned in the studies which I thought was odd. I could not imaging 40mg right out of the gate....
I did about a three-week cycle of MOTs-C where I tried it with, and without SS-31 and did not feel anything from MOTs. I still have a few kits so I will probably try adding it back in the next few weeks.
Efficacy and Safety of Elamipretide in Individuals With Primary Mitochondrial Myopathy: The MMPOWER-3 Randomized Clinical Trial - PubMed
This study provides Class I evidence that elamipretide does not improve the 6MWT or fatigue at 24 weeks compared with placebo in patients with primary mitochondrial myopathy.
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GimmeABreak
Rabbit-hole Explorer
No issue with sleep at all but I have never taken it about 4:00 in the afternoon. I also only take the second dose like once every week or two. Specifically, if I need a little pick me up because we have evening plans or something. I guess if I pinned at 9PM pin it would probably keep me up. In general, I typically don't have a difficult time falling asleep.
