Testosterone.

[Gr33dyOctopus]

I've had levels twice this year in the 200's and my dr. said that is perfectly normal. However isn't still seems really low to me.

So imagine you all will be EXTREMELY SURPRISED to find out I just ordered it from a vendor on the gray market to give it a try. It should be here in a couple days.

Sooooo. I am needle phobic ( or I was ) and a half inch long wide bore needles scares me. Ive been reading subq stuff, but it looks like IM is the best route. Whats the smallest gage needle I can get for this.

See people rolling 3x a week subq, that works?

Dont want to screw up my natural test, especially with 30 pounds to lose, as an experiment for a short time this isnt going to ruin me, is it?

I see reta gh and test as a holy trinity that can potentially make you feel oh so good. I never feel oh so good, maybe thats why Im an asshole and Zippity has his finger on the trigger to shut me up. Maybe this would cure my assholism and finally get me on track to being a church going contributing member of society?

I dont fucking know. But I want to try all three of those things. Talk me into it or out of it?

 

[Elgordoboy]

I do three times a week subq. I store test c in a cabinet at room temp. I draw with a 27g needle and change to a 30g 5/16 needle to inject into my abdomen. I rarely feel anything at all much less pain. When I do IM I use a 27g needle for both, longer yet for the injection as the small needle is tough to squeeze IM and it jiggles around in the muscle and actually hurts more later. Subq is .3ml each injection which is 60mg per dose as I use a 200mg per ml solution. My levels were just under 300 when I began. Changed my life. I don’t know what is side effects of medicine and side effects of getting into shape are anymore but I just know I feel great now relative to how I felt. Same thing happened with Chantix when I quit smoking,mit was hard to say what was side effects of the pill or side effect of nicotine withdrawal but it worked. 50+ male. Good luck

 

[woundcarping]

I've had levels twice this year in the 200's and my dr. said that is perfectly normal. However isn't still seems really low to me.

So imagine you all will be EXTREMELY SURPRISED to find out I just ordered it from a vendor on the gray market to give it a try. It should be here in a couple days.

Sooooo. I am needle phobic ( or I was ) and a half inch long wide bore needles scares me. Ive been reading subq stuff, but it looks like IM is the best route. Whats the smallest gage needle I can get for this.

See people rolling 3x a week subq, that works?

Dont want to screw up my natural test, especially with 30 pounds to lose, as an experiment for a short time this isnt going to ruin me, is it?

I see reta gh and test as a holy trinity that can potentially make you feel oh so good. I never feel oh so good, maybe thats why Im an asshole and Zippity has his finger on the trigger to shut me up. Maybe this would cure my assholism and finally get me on track to being a church going contributing member of society?

I dont fucking know. But I want to try all three of those things. Talk me into it or out of it?

200-300ng/dl probably sucks

You can IM with whatever reaches the muscle, 1/2" 29g can work. That's what I also use for SQ.

I do SQ 3x week, I don't see a reason to deviate. IM typically makes the muscle sore as hell in my experience, to the point I stopped doing TRT back in the day because I didn't know about SQ.

Exogenous test will crush your own test. You're in the 200s, there's not that much to ruin. You could use HCG to keep your huevos working and from atrophying, if you're into that.

 

[Diamondd817]

You need minimum 1" needle to inject IM. I use a 21g to draw and a 25g 1" to inject. I inject in the upper-outer quadrant of the glutes (right or left). Painless as there are almost no nerves back there. And letting a little oil coat the needle helps smooth the insertion.

 

[MTSpace]

Full Bloodwork before you start including IGF-1, thyroid, SHGB, estradiol, test ( you already have). Work on optimizing TRT before you add Reta or HGH. Easier to differentiate one variable at a time to make necessary adjustments. I am struggling with HGH as my IGF-1 was high for such a low dose.. Off HGH now to optimize TRT and will hop back on HGH sometime soon after I stabilize my hematocrit on TRT.

 

[Rezwalker]

go see a private endo you will have your trt

 

[Mochizuki0124]

Ive been on TRT for months even before starting peptides.

When I started I did 25g to pull and 27g to inject 1x a week.

Now I use 30g to both pull and inject, takes longer since I use cyp but still works a less painful. And I moved from 1x a week to 2x a week. My test went from Low 200s to 900-1000 but I also lost about 30 lbs which helped in my testosterone.

No issues with my mood or SD so I think I found my perfect spot. I just started reta about 1.5 months ago and honestly its more of a limiter/maintenance for me so that I dont gain the weight back and it has helped with my body composition. Im about to dabble on HGH soon too.

 

[woundcarping]

go see a private endo you will have your trt

Or just go telemed, TRT Nation was easy for me and having a legal Rx for a controlled substance was of interest.

 

[Mood]

Been on trt for 14 years. Was using an endo for a while but they like numbers in the acceptable range, not necessarily optimal range. With TRT Nation now and semi self-managing. Echo what people are saying about labs. make sure you get a full lab work up so you know your baseline and test about 8-10 weeks in.

I currently run 70mg/3 days, IM (usually in delts. Used to do quad, but hit a nerve one time and found delts are preferred for me). Draw with a 20g and inject with a 1.5" 25g. Found longer needles are better for me. Get's it deeper in the muscle and results in less soreness (though I haven't had injection soreness in years).

 

[Mood]

Also, if you are still losing weight, keep an eye on your E2 and your total and free test as you continue to drop body weight. You may end up having to drop your dose in the future as your body fat declines. That is perfectly fine and normal.

Everyone reacts differently, so manage your dose based on YOUR levels and symptoms not anyone else.

 

[woundcarping]

For me, TRT Nation is empowering, happy to answer questions, and happy with me making adjustments before talking to them... it's been a positive experience compared to going to a local provider.

I didn't think to add:

I started TRT a bit over a month into the GLP fueled weight loss. I started at 40mg 3x week, everything was good but DHT was low. I increased my dose 50% (60mg 3x) which raised DHT 80% (got it in range) but hematocrit got too high (56%). Dropped to 50mg 3x, donated (52%), and I'll take my 3 week post donation labs this week or next to check hematocrit and see how hematocrit is rebounding.

I get TRT specific labs 8 weeks after a dose adjustment, so my third round of that will be next month.

 

[sfkid]

So imagine you all will be EXTREMELY SURPRISED to find out I just ordered it from a vendor on the gray market to give it a try. It should be here in a couple days.

You know its not really smart to just "try" without understanding what that means?

Once you start you will shutdown your natural production completely. If you dont have a post cycle protocol ready (enclo, hcg...) once you stop will feel even worse than at 200 until your boys decide to start producing naturally again...

Also if you dont have an Aromatase Inhibitor on hand and your estrogen spikes out of control you might grow man boobs if not addressed....

Not trying to scare you , Im on test and love it, but you need to be prepared and understand whats involved , before "trying"...

 

[Foggy-Hollow]

Or just go telemed, TRT Nation was easy for me and having a legal Rx for a controlled substance was of interest.

Dear heavens Octopus - you’re part of the 49% that can do this easily using the normal path… GO! My husband had his in hand within a week! It took me two years of finding a provider and finally getting the visit. Take your damned privilege and use it (with my positive wishes)!

I find 29-31 gauge to work fine. It’s a long minute to draw, so leuer lock has a following: one gauge to draw another to inject. I’ll just stick the vials in my bra for 5 minutes to warm the oil slightly. I tried pens but those are much nicer with “water” based.

 

[Foggy-Hollow]

I increased my dose 50% (60mg 3x) which raised DHT 80% (got it in range) but hematocrit got too high (56%).

This is important, and a GREAT reason to have a knowledgeable provider.

Mine kept an eye on my cholesterol, which has remained great.

 

[swimmer]

This is an excellent article on low T options. Sorry some people have a hard time opening it.

https://thepeptidelist.com/articles/enclomiphene-trt-exit-fertility

 

[tendency]

I've had levels twice this year in the 200's and my dr. said that is perfectly normal. However isn't still seems really low to me.

So imagine you all will be EXTREMELY SURPRISED to find out I just ordered it from a vendor on the gray market to give it a try. It should be here in a couple days.

Sooooo. I am needle phobic ( or I was ) and a half inch long wide bore needles scares me. Ive been reading subq stuff, but it looks like IM is the best route. Whats the smallest gage needle I can get for this.

See people rolling 3x a week subq, that works?

Dont want to screw up my natural test, especially with 30 pounds to lose, as an experiment for a short time this isnt going to ruin me, is it?

I see reta gh and test as a holy trinity that can potentially make you feel oh so good. I never feel oh so good, maybe thats why Im an asshole and Zippity has his finger on the trigger to shut me up. Maybe this would cure my assholism and finally get me on track to being a church going contributing member of society?

I dont fucking know. But I want to try all three of those things. Talk me into it or out of it?

It's not just the blood level of T that matters - you must clearly be having significant quality of life symptoms.

So, to your dr's point: how do you know those blood levels are abnormal for you?

Don't just freelance going on T - yes, you could possibly cause long term endocrine issues, not likely but..

 

[CNCCurrency]

I've had levels twice this year in the 200's and my dr. said that is perfectly normal. However isn't still seems really low to me.

So imagine you all will be EXTREMELY SURPRISED to find out I just ordered it from a vendor on the gray market to give it a try. It should be here in a couple days.

Sooooo. I am needle phobic ( or I was ) and a half inch long wide bore needles scares me. Ive been reading subq stuff, but it looks like IM is the best route. Whats the smallest gage needle I can get for this.

See people rolling 3x a week subq, that works?

Dont want to screw up my natural test, especially with 30 pounds to lose, as an experiment for a short time this isnt going to ruin me, is it?

I see reta gh and test as a holy trinity that can potentially make you feel oh so good. I never feel oh so good, maybe thats why Im an asshole and Zippity has his finger on the trigger to shut me up. Maybe this would cure my assholism and finally get me on track to being a church going contributing member of society?

I dont fucking know. But I want to try all three of those things. Talk me into it or out of it?

3x a week subq, that works? Yes

 

[woundcarping]

This is important, and a GREAT reason to have a knowledgeable provider.

Mine kept an eye on my cholesterol, which has remained great.

They don't know about the hematocrit yet. Our 8 week followup was closer to 10 weeks, I'd already adjusted my dose, which he agreed with after asking various questions to see if I was doing something else to reduce my DHT levels.

He said if I ever had questions to email in and they'd set up another phone appointment, which was a nice sentiment for a script mill.

It's not just the blood level of T that matters - you must clearly be having significant quality of life symptoms.

That seems overstated.

You can be prescribed based on low labs alone, or with reasonable labs and low t symptoms, or low labs and symptoms. "Significant symptoms" is as simple as saying you're moody, low drive, libido, etc.

Going through a PCP or local provider sucks in my experience. Some people are fortunate to have local "functional doctors," but for the rest of us, Telemed kicks ass.

 

[tendency]

That seems overstated.

You can be prescribed based on low labs alone, or with reasonable labs and low t symptoms, or low labs and symptoms. "Significant symptoms" is as simple as saying you're moody, low drive, libido, etc.

Going through a PCP or local provider sucks in my experience. Some people are fortunate to have local "functional doctors," but for the rest of us, Telemed kicks ass.

Absolutely not. Before you go on a life long medication, shut down your endogenous endocrine system and deal with potentially very significant side effects you better be damn sure you're treating the right condition.

 

[Don]

If u start injecting test, ur body is most likely gonna shut down its own production anyway. So I personally wouldn’t start unless u are aware that this can turn into something u might need to use long-term.

IM is usually the better way to go, especially if u keep the pinning frequency high, for example every 2nd day. That can help reduce fluctuations and lower the risk of side effects.

It also depends on ur dosage and what ester u use. U didn’t mention whether ur talking about TRT, TRT+, or going into high supraphysiological levels. Depending on that, the effects can become noticeable sooner or later. But in general, getting to a stable, balanced level can take around 2–3 months.

 

[nkresho]

I'll weigh in on the SQ vs IM. I started my TRT injecting SQ around my belly. I started at 11% BF. The area around my belly was pretty much optimal.

My carrier oil was MCT and using 200gm/mL.

Using 29ga, 1/2" insulin pins. I draw and inject from the same syringe/needle. Tried separate but didn't really feel it being less painful so went back to the simpler slin pins.

I would get a little depot lump from each injection though. They'd last about a week. Non-painful, but annoying nonetheless. No PIP,. I injected very slowly as well, read that faster injections can irritate the tissues more. I used a vibrating massager immediately after and later in the day as well with minimal reduction in the lumps.

Compounding pharmacy that makes my test recommends refrigeration, so i always put the vial in warm (not hot) water for a few mins before drawing.

Eventually, i got tired of the lumps, and tried vastus lateralus. Still using 29ga 1/2". My skin is very light tone, especially on my thighs, so super easy to see surface blood vessels and avoid them. Additionally, i am able to use the z-track method to close up the hole after i inject so pretty much never bleed, not even a tiny pinprick. For my BF%, 1/2" is plenty to get into the muscle.

For me, it actually hurts a good deal less than my belly (even using 31g for water based peps).

I highly recommend giving IM a shot.

 

[5byfive]

A lot depends on how old you are and if you want to have kids in the future. If fertility isn't an issue, just get on test and stay there. If you do want to have kids, its a bit more complicated but many people have run test for long periods of time and still restarted their natural production, but there is always the risk you won't be able to. You have to decide if you are OK with that risk.

As far as IM or Sub-Q, Sub-Q will give you more stable levels if you can tolerate it. I started with .5ml weekly and never had any issues but some People will have lumps even at lower doses. I know more now than I did then and I would definitely recommend at least 2x a week and I recently went to EOD. Weekly spiked my estrogen and by increasing frequency I was able to get it back in line. If you go Sub-Q there is no need for multiple needles. You can draw and inject with a 27G or 29G, you just have to be a little patient letting it fill.

The big issue with TRT is that it has a tendency to mess up other things. I said this in another post today, it becomes like a game of wack-a-mole. Just getting on it and making sure your estrogen is in line will give you good results but if you want to optimize, you have to look at a lot more things. It will mess with your cholesterol, ferritin, DHEA, hematocrit, and some other markers. So really getting it right can take some work.

At your levels, its probably worth doing, but there is a lot to consider. Its not like a pep where you can just give it a shot and see what happens. There is a lot of tuning involved to really get the good results.