I do think there is a difference between a peptide created by a reputable pharmaceutical with human trials in progress and published research. And then this… it also sets a dangerous precedent
WARNING: AVOID AMINOS RESEARCH AT ALL COSTS!!! DANGER!!!
- Thread starter ZippityDooDah
- Start date
clevesand
Member
But what is clear to me is its not a novel chemical. It's just mad scientist mixing of existing stuff - contrary to him saying otherwise - and then telling Jano what to test for. If I sent Jano a test for "Cleve's Triple 7" that was 7mg of Tirz Sema and Cagri I would expect an analytical report to show 7 mg of all three of those chemicals and not something that says it's "Cleve's Triple 7"
It's not a blend of existing stuff, that's why it doesn't show in the reports like a mix
Please, please do not worry about the product that is now in your hands! I am not here to "endorse" AR but I cannot bear the idea of you now being anxious about your purchase.
Although this latest "new peptide" development is very troubling and absolutely unacceptable, their known-peptide products have maintained an impeccable reputation for quality. Everything has always been tested, always meets purity and quantity standards. A great deal of third-party testing has confirmed their own Janoshik testing. It has NOT all been a ruse. This has been a very good vendor; I have a lot of their product from the "before times," and I won't hesitate to use any of it.
That being said, I will never purchase from them again, because I will not support this new venture that has crossed the line.
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SassyPants
New_Member
Fair point. ( although I do appreciate the heads up so thank you for that, op )
roxygirl
New_Member
I immediately popped in over here to find out what’s truly happening. Peppy’s is doing damage control only. Thank you for being transparent Gonk. I had no doubt you would.
I agree that if it's a blend it shouldn't be presented as a single compound, but at the moment between BB Amino's claims and jano's statement/report I don't see why you're assuming it's a blend. All the limited evidence we're working from points to it being a single compound. I'm getting the sense you're trying to gin up a scandal at the edges where there isn't one while ignoring the giant scandal that is in fact present.
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mostlydamp
Member
I was a reasearch RN for years, so let me explain. This is different in that drugs going even to phase 1 testing get tested in vitro and on animals, then phase 1 is EXTREMELY small and well monitored with labs and physician oversight. Then phase 2 is just a little bigger, enough to see if a larger population can see anything like the results you expect. Physician oversight, lab tests, imaging, lots of data gathering, and statistical analysis are what make all of the examples you gave VERY different from selling the peptide equivalent of a little kid mixing together shampoos to create their own brand.
Even the Cold War studies on epithalon are much more advanced than this. What AR did is the equivalent of companies in the early 1900s making radioactive products that were supposed to cure all kinds of ailments based on science that someone made up without any kind of training or scientific analysis. We're better than that.
FourthQuintile
New Member
I always miss the QR code part
But yeah, looks like my question and yours were answered later on, Janoshik was provided with a reference by AR, and tested it against said reference. As much as Janoshik is a highly, highly valued part of this greater overall community, he is exactly one single part of it: Does provided sample contain what the test request is looking to see if it contains?
FWIW part of me also figures that if such a substance could be created, and had anything close to what is claimed for effectiveness...Big Pharma would (rightfully so arguably) have been all over it. If semi-random vendor can have a lab create this, so could any of Big Pharma. Only obstacle I can think of there would be if it infringes on the patents for S or T, that would stop them from it.
As a devil's advocate response, I'd like some sort of Phase 1 testing on a compound at absolute bare minimum, and in particular having that testing rather than being charged for the "privilege" of being the Phase 1 tester myself, which is basically what this is.
What even would a researcher dose this as? If it is a molecule that is part S and part T, well, on a milligram basis those doses are very different. 2.5mg is the T starting dose. 2.5mg is the current S long-term dose. Should someone administer 0.25mg? 2.5mg? In between? More? Less?
At least after a Phase 2 trial, a researcher would have a halfway decent idea of what dosage and schedule for administration may or may not cause whatever set of desired effects and unwanted side effects one is comfortable with.
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I was checking places to test tirzepatide . One lab used by a compounding pharmacy in Texas and required a reference sample for the tirz I wanted to test. Lots of room for fraud there.I always miss the QR code part
But yeah, looks like my question and yours were answered later on, Janoshik was provided with a reference by AR, and tested it against said reference. As much as Janoshik is a highly, highly valued part of this greater overall community, he is exactly one single part of it: Does provided sample contain what the test request is looking to see if it contains?
FWIW part of me also figures that if such a substance could be created, and had anything close to what is claimed for effectiveness...Big Pharma would (rightfully so arguably) have been all over it. If semi-random vendor can have a lab create this, so could any of Big Pharma. Only obstacle I can think of there would be if it infringes on the patents for S or T, that would stop them from it.
As a devil's advocate response, I'd like some sort of Phase 1 testing on a compound at absolute bare minimum, and in particular having that testing rather than being charged for the "privilege" of being the Phase 1 tester myself, which is basically what this is.
What even would a researcher dose this as? If it is a molecule that is part S and part T, well, on a milligram basis those doses are very different. 2.5mg is the T starting dose. 2.5mg is the current S long-term dose. Should someone administer 0.25mg? 2.5mg? In between? More? Less?
At least after a Phase 2 trial, a researcher would have a halfway decent idea of what dosage and schedule for administration may or may not cause whatever set of desired effects and unwanted side effects one is comfortable with.
The lab I use now had never tested tirz …. He didn’t want a reference sample he wanted the AA sequence and molecular weight…..
Chizikitide-1977
Member
Im trying to think through this logically with the limited info we have.
Regarding the jano test, for that to work jano would need a reference sample. And ideally the reference sample should not come from the same source as the sample tested to be a true independent test. However since this is a novel chemical there may only be one place that can create it. So in that case, assuming Brandon provided both the reference sample and the test sample, all the test proves is that 2 bottles of mystery powder have the same peptides.
If someone with better background with testing knows of a flaw in this, please correct me if my understanding is wrong here. Also, I know that it's a bit of an assumption that the reference sample and test sample came from the same source. Maybe that would violate some ethical line jano wouldn't cross, but I just don't see how else they could source a brand new chemicals.
Edit, looks like in the time my post was waiting for approval, someone confirmed Brandon provided the reference sample.
Regarding the jano test, for that to work jano would need a reference sample. And ideally the reference sample should not come from the same source as the sample tested to be a true independent test. However since this is a novel chemical there may only be one place that can create it. So in that case, assuming Brandon provided both the reference sample and the test sample, all the test proves is that 2 bottles of mystery powder have the same peptides.
If someone with better background with testing knows of a flaw in this, please correct me if my understanding is wrong here. Also, I know that it's a bit of an assumption that the reference sample and test sample came from the same source. Maybe that would violate some ethical line jano wouldn't cross, but I just don't see how else they could source a brand new chemicals.
Edit, looks like in the time my post was waiting for approval, someone confirmed Brandon provided the reference sample.
FourthQuintile
New Member
The AA sequence should actually be in the patent for it. That's partly why the other manufacturers are able to make it. The patent requires how the molecule is created in the lab, and the AA sequence. Anyone with enough lab equipment can just follow those instructions.
The patent for Tirzepatide from Eli Lilly is US9474780. Not going to direct link a source here for it out of a most likely overabundance of caution, but just searching that number will pull up any number of sources showing that full patent. The AA sequence is in there.
Screenshotting here for those who don't want to click to Meso, Zippity can feel free to remove this screenshot if there are any concerns about it, the link is definitely fine.
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cta7978
🥥
Understand what you are saying, but how many researchers (for example) on this site are using 5-amino-1MQ. Quite a few of the domestic peptide companies are selling this compound (Peptide Sciences and Xcel are a couplefor example). There has never been any human clinical trials. Just a mouse study to my knowlege.I always miss the QR code part
But yeah, looks like my question and yours were answered later on, Janoshik was provided with a reference by AR, and tested it against said reference. As much as Janoshik is a highly, highly valued part of this greater overall community, he is exactly one single part of it: Does provided sample contain what the test request is looking to see if it contains?
FWIW part of me also figures that if such a substance could be created, and had anything close to what is claimed for effectiveness...Big Pharma would (rightfully so arguably) have been all over it. If semi-random vendor can have a lab create this, so could any of Big Pharma. Only obstacle I can think of there would be if it infringes on the patents for S or T, that would stop them from it.
As a devil's advocate response, I'd like some sort of Phase 1 testing on a compound at absolute bare minimum, and in particular having that testing rather than being charged for the "privilege" of being the Phase 1 tester myself, which is basically what this is.
What even would a researcher dose this as? If it is a molecule that is part S and part T, well, on a milligram basis those doses are very different. 2.5mg is the T starting dose. 2.5mg is the current S long-term dose. Should someone administer 0.25mg? 2.5mg? In between? More? Less?
At least after a Phase 2 trial, a researcher would have a halfway decent idea of what dosage and schedule for administration may or may not cause whatever set of desired effects and unwanted side effects one is comfortable with.
MrsRoper_1977
Research Enthusiast
They’re “halting their project indefinitely” so everyone can calm down.
Yes was easy to find the molecular weight and amino acid sequence info to submit to lab …That is why I am testing there now lol. The other lab actual wanted a reference tirz sample to test against….. seemed like an area for potential fraud .
Ladylaw
New_Member
My guess is that if you were to slap a Tirz label on a vial of his new GLP-1and sent it off for testing as Tirz, it would come back as 99% pure. I think this was a ham-fisted attempt to re-enter the Tirz market.
Also the Chinese developed a new method for making tirzepatide that they developed and applied for a patent…..
CN110903355A - Preparation method of Tirzepatide - Google Patents
The invention provides a preparation method of Tirzepatide, which adopts special protective amino acids Boc-Tyr (tBu) -Aib-Glu (OtBu) -Gly-OH and Fmoc-Lys (AEEA-AEEA-gamma Glu (α -OtBu) -Eicoside acid (mon-tBu)) -OH, and solves the problem of low product purity in a large-scale preparation method.
patents.google.com
mostlydamp
Member
While I agree, I think it needs to be discussed. Someone who would do this is either uneducated or sociopathic. I once made a joke about a crazy vendor being like a Batman villain. Well here we are again, just a different kind of villain. It's worth getting at least sort of worked up about.
All this followers
were jumping head first to test his product. I don't understand their obsession with him. It's pretty sickening
