I'm going to shoot for losing 100 pounds in 6 months

[StonePny]

Just keep in mind that Collagen is not a complete protein and shouldn't be counted towards your daily goal.

Is missing essentially one amino acid, so not "complete" and obviously cannot be your primary protein source. As can be said for all protein powders. But saying it shouldn't be COUNTED is false. Vegetarians eat incomplete protein sources exclusively and have to cobble together those that complement and complete each other. Obviously those are "counted" in their overall protein intake.

 

[zpped]

Is missing essentially one amino acid, so not "complete" and obviously cannot be your primary protein source. As can be said for all protein powders. But saying it shouldn't be COUNTED is false. Vegetarians eat incomplete protein sources exclusively and have to cobble together those that complement and complete each other. Obviously those are "counted" in their overall protein intake.

Not sure why you're quoting "complete" like it's a made up definition. Collagen is missing an essential amino acid, therefor it's not complete.

As for wether you count it or not is up to you. But the advice for daily protein intake is based on the premise that it is a complete protein.

And Vegetarians have lots of options of complete protein. vegans have a lot less but still a few. There is a reason they have a harder time building muscle.

 

[zpped]

since my dexa scans never tell me muscle and fat

???? what are you getting from the dexa if not a body fat breakdown? That's its entire purpose.

 

[StonePny]

Not sure why you're quoting "complete" like it's a made up definition. Collagen is missing an essential amino acid, therefor it's not complete.

As for wether you count it or not is up to you. But the advice for daily protein intake is based on the premise that it is a complete protein.

And Vegetarians have lots of options of complete protein. vegans have a lot less but still a few. There is a reason they have a harder time building muscle.

I don't think complete is a made up definition. I'm not a neophyte to nutrition, as I had to study it extensively to do private chef work for clients on specialized diets.
If I'm mixing the collagan into yoghurt, or other dairy, or other sources of tryptophan, I am making up the difference of the missing amino acid. Not every veg or vegan eats soy or dairy. Therefore in some cases aminos need to be cobbled together, and it most definitely can be counted in a daily protein intake count.

 

[hexagonal]

StonePny is spot on. If I have 60g of protein in my fair life bottles alongside 20g of collagen, I'm going to be able to use the majority (and probably all) of that collagen for MPS and other use cases for "complete" protein. It's not like complete protein sources have the exact same amino acid ratios to begin with, and you certainly don't need those ratios to be 1:1.

 

[raw_oyster_eater]

i'm trying for very low calories and almost none on a few days a week. so the ones I do eat have to be very pleasing to me. protein powder and such sucks. I want to eat steak, fish, shrimp, sashimi and my very favorite foods. I've always been a big protein eater anyway so i'm going to continue on that path. these people eating all the veggies and stuff are getting a lot of pesticides that's destroying their bodies.

talk all you want about muscle loss. fasting is one of the most excellent things you can do for your body. it gets rid of the trash cells so you can rebuild. they did many studys on mice with restricted calories and they lived up to 50% longer. so I won't have enough brawn to dig ditches and chop and haul wood. I'm ok with that.

I spent a number of years "lifting" its been my experience that you don't see much of any muscle gain unless you eat like a pig and get fat. I played that game and just ended up getting fat. I know you all are going to come back with a lot of blah blah blah but my mind is made up on the subject.

 

[hexagonal]

i'm trying for very low calories and almost none on a few days a week. so the ones I do eat have to be very pleasing to me. protein powder and such sucks. I want to eat steak, fish, shrimp, sashimi and my very favorite foods. I've always been a big protein eater anyway so i'm going to continue on that path. these people eating all the veggies and stuff are getting a lot of pesticides that's destroying their bodies.

talk all you want about muscle loss. fasting is one of the most excellent things you can do for your body. it gets rid of the trash cells so you can rebuild. they did many studys on mice with restricted calories and they lived up to 50% longer. so I won't have enough brawn to dig ditches and chop and haul wood. I'm ok with that.

I spent a number of years "lifting" its been my experience that you don't see much of any muscle gain unless you eat like a pig and get fat. I played that game and just ended up getting fat. I know you all are going to come back with a lot of blah blah blah but my mind is made up on the subject.

Bulking certainly makes building muscle easier and more effective, but plenty of people do fairly lean bulks these days, or even go for the slower recomp option. The latter isn't really viable for people wanting to add significant strength or muscle mass just because of how much slower it is, but it does work up until pretty significant high levels of musculature.

Not even trying to convince you, just for anyone else that might be reading.

 

[raw_oyster_eater]

are they doing "lean" bulks without steroids? i've tried some and they give me a headache.

 

[Skidude]

Bulking certainly makes building muscle easier and more effective, but plenty of people do fairly lean bulks these days, or even go for the slower recomp option. The latter isn't really viable for people wanting to add significant strength or muscle mass just because of how much slower it is, but it does work up until pretty significant high levels of musculature.

Not even trying to convince you, just for anyone else that might be reading.

I thought about taking the route of transitioning to building muscle and losing the last 15-20lbs at a stage just prior to goal to allow the mass to potentially make adding muscle easier, but decided that in order to get the gains on face and visceral fat loss it would be better to cut down to below goal and then try and add.

I am sure it is not as fast, but I am ok with taking some time now that I can move in my body so much easier after dropping 65lbs. I know I could have avoided some muscle loss the other way but I had an inordinate amount of fat around my belly (likely visceral intense) and face.

I was more focused on macros to stay healthy so when i did enter lean stages i would have strength, energy, etc to push the exercise. I measure protein, calorie, and movement daily and ensure i have plenty of fiber and nutrients from meals when possible and with supplements.

Do you believe this to be a reasonable plan?

 

[AndyPanda]

I thought about taking the route of transitioning to building muscle and losing the last 15-20lbs at a stage just prior to goal to allow the mass to potentially make adding muscle easier, but decided that in order to get the gains on face and visceral fat loss it would be better to cut down to below goal and then try and add.

If you were so inclined, you could bulk with the weight, then cut with a 6-8 week cycle of Winstrol. It will preserve your muscle, remove that little bit of fat and dry you out nice.

 

[StonePny]

i'm trying for very low calories and almost none on a few days a week. so the ones I do eat have to be very pleasing to me. protein powder and such sucks. I want to eat steak, fish, shrimp, sashimi and my very favorite foods. I've always been a big protein eater anyway so i'm going to continue on that path. these people eating all the veggies and stuff are getting a lot of pesticides that's destroying their bodies.

talk all you want about muscle loss. fasting is one of the most excellent things you can do for your body. it gets rid of the trash cells so you can rebuild. they did many studys on mice with restricted calories and they lived up to 50% longer. so I won't have enough brawn to dig ditches and chop and haul wood. I'm ok with that.

I spent a number of years "lifting" its been my experience that you don't see much of any muscle gain unless you eat like a pig and get fat. I played that game and just ended up getting fat. I know you all are going to come back with a lot of blah blah blah but my mind is made up on the subject.

I totally agree-- I think eating quality proteins is much better than relying on powders or drinks. Fasting is hugely beneficial, and the idea that your body will cannibalize muscle ignores the intelligence of our bodies, and the reason we store fat (quick energy during famine). If you have extra fat, that's what your body's going to use first (after sugars). It's harder to break down and metabolize muscle than fat.
Are you doing actual fasting, as in no food/calories to activate autophagy?

 

[zpped]

Do you believe this to be a reasonable plan?

Yes, not to mention the psychological encouragement of getting lean. Working out is more fun when you can see the muscle moving. But don't wait to be working out.

 

[StonePny]

If you were so inclined, you could bulk with the weight, then cut with a 6-8 week cycle of Winstrol. It will preserve your muscle, remove that little bit of fat and dry you out nice.

Maybe it's just me? But when the wild-childs like @AndyPanda (aka the guy who does his own iv's!) mention something, I kind of want to try it. Even though I'm a girl and it scares me a little.
*edit--just looked up Winstrol, probably not for me

 

[FlowerFairy]

???? what are you getting from the dexa if not a body fat breakdown? That's its entire purpose.

I get it to monitor bone density. The rest is not listed in the report. I have osteoporosis in my left hip.