SS-31 + MOTs-C vs NAD+

[Desieldogg]

I'm looking to battle some fatigue, and I've read endlessly about SS-31/MOTs-C/NAD+, but I'm still having trouble deciding how I should proceed. Should I start with the SS/MOT protocol, then move to NAD+? After SS, do I stay on MOT forever?

 

[Loeve]

They're synergistic. Prime with SS-31 to repair mitochondria and then stack MOTS-C and NAD+.

 

[randompersonrandom]

I'm glad this protocol is getting super popular all at once; it'll be cool in four months when a whole bunch of us are either like "YOU GUYS I HAVE SO MUCH ENERGY SO HAPPY" together, or "DIDN'T DO SHIT FOR ME" all together.

 

[Loeve]

I'm glad this protocol is getting super popular all at once; it'll be cool in four months when a whole bunch of us are either like "YOU GUYS I HAVE SO MUCH ENERGY SO HAPPY" together, or "DIDN'T DO SHIT FOR ME" all together.

Did you make it or did it originate here? I just had the PDF shared with me.

 

[randompersonrandom]

Did you make it or did it originate here? I just had the PDF shared with me.

no, I don't know where it originated; only that it's been posted here a lot lately.

 

[Such1943]

I'm glad this protocol is getting super popular all at once; it'll be cool in four months when a whole bunch of us are either like "YOU GUYS I HAVE SO MUCH ENERGY SO HAPPY" together, or "DIDN'T DO SHIT FOR ME" all together.

I’m all for it. I’m starting the protocol most likely in December.

 

[Doug5421]

The protocol spinning around seems cool in theory, but imo, think the most benefit will come from indefinite NR/NMN supplementation w/ periodic cycles of SS-31 due to repair and upkeep. MOTS-C, possibly for performance enhancement. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Twowheelr2]

They're synergistic. Prime with SS-31 to repair mitochondria and then stack MOTS-C and NAD+.

This is a 14 Week protocol. Weeks 13 and 14 are the same as Week 12..MOTS-c and NADS+. The PDF has links to files and research documentation to explain the reasoning behind this schedule. I started it Firday.

 

[Twowheelr2]

View: https://youtu.be/MPMJLA38o8M?si=HqZrRzuXPIUedmsN

 

[PAPoots]

So what kind of feeling should I expect from NAD+. I'm in my 3rd week and have titrated up to 50mg and pin M,W, F first thing in the morning. This is v30 units when 500mg vial is reconstituted with 3ml. I also take 500mcg of Semax daily SubQ.

No feelings yet. I'm about 8 weeks away from kicking in the MOTS-c protocol. I'll also have finished a 20 day, 5mg in the evening Epitalon round in 3 more days.

The only thing that has happened is my sleep scores have dropped from the high 80s to 70s or lower.

Is this like a Tesa protocol where you gain water weight and lose visceral fat, and you don't see the results until sometime after the protocol is complete?

I was really hoping to feel a little more wakefulness in the am and having some better morning workouts.

 

[Chili777]

I've been on oral NR (300mg) for years and it's affect is subtle. It's not that I notice anything special when I'm taking it, it's that I do notice when I don't. If you got quality NAD, I would just trust that it's working. My 2 cents.

 

[Such1943]

I just started the protocol this week. I noticed some energy, hard to describe but I’ll call it clean, I guess. My coffee consumption was down from the Reta, but I did not even make a pot this week. My sleep app shows I fell asleep later and woke up earlier than usual Wed, Thurs and Fri. So far so good I would say. Placebo? I’ll report back next week. 45/M

	Monday	Tuesday	Wednesday	Thursday	Friday	Saturday	Sunday
Week 1 12/1	NAD+ 150mg SS-31 3mg	SS-31 3mg	NAD+ 150mg SS-31 3mg	SS-31 3mg	NAD+ 150mg SS-31 3mg	SS-31 3mg	SS-31 3mg

 

[badugib]

I want to start that 14 week protocol from that pdf file as well. Once my ss-31 and nad+ arrives. Has anyone followed that procedure? And what were your results?

 

[Jellybelly54]

Somewhere in there someone should work in 5A1MQ. Mix in that freaky orange stuff for added energy and increased NAD+ through the NNMT inhibition.

 

[PopTart]

I want to start that 14 week protocol from that pdf file as well. Once my ss-31 and nad+ arrives. Has anyone followed that procedure? And what were your results?

I’ve been doing the protocol for 6+ weeks - starting mots tomorrow. Going to pin mots on my gym days to see if it boosts performance. I don’t “feel” anything from NAD but that doesn’t mean that it’s not working. I get a huge energy and mental clarity boost from SS-31. I’m in my early 60s. I try to stick to OMAD most days to trigger mitophagy. It’s definitely a YMMV stack as some at my age experience a benefit while others don’t.

 

[Chili777]

I think you (and I) being in our 60s are exactly who this protocol is designed for and the studies linked in the doc bear that out. All three of these peptides diminish as we get older, so this is a way to replenish our mitochondrial factories. I read that the decline starts around 40. That's important because, as it was pointed out to me, these dosages are fairly high for someone under that age. Peptides, in my view, are for people trying recapture some of that vigor they used to have at 30, not for a 30 YO to become 10 again. You can't optimize an optimal system any further and 20-30's is when these levels peak. I would just caution that younger people take that into account when trying to replicate this protocol.

 

[tendency]

The protocol spinning around seems cool in theory, but imo, think the most benefit will come from indefinite NR/NMN supplementation w/ periodic cycles of SS-31 due to repair and upkeep. MOTS-C, possibly for performance enhancement. Just my 2 cents.

Personally, I didnt feel much taking 100mg of NAD+ for several weeks.

I do, however, get a very nice energy and mood boost from taking 600mg NR daily.

 

[Nathanologist]

Personally, I didnt feel much taking 100mcg of NAD+ for several weeks.

I do, however, get a very nice energy and mood boost from taking 600mg NR daily.

100mg, not 100mcg.

 

[tendency]

100mg, not 100mcg.

Ah, yep, my bad 100mg.

 

[PopTart]

I do, however, get a very nice energy and mood boost from taking 600mg NR daily.

I may end up going this route when I run out of injectable NAD+, primarily for the convenience of swallowing a pill vs a sometimes spicy pin. I’ve also looked at adding NMN but a bit on the fence for now.

 

[PAPoots]

For those of us running some form of the
SS-31/MOTs-C/NAD+ protocol, what is going to be your next protocol? At 55, I'm looking to improve cognitive and energy and I'm debating Cerebrolysin. I forgot where I read it but due to suggested cycles it seems to be a good one to follow up ss31 and epitalon protocols with.

 

[Calm Logic]

5 amino 1MQ is trendy for energy and is included in an NAD combo along with MOTS (in an expensive combo by the vendor WWB):



The problem with 5 amino is playing with the dosing. It is like SS-31 or MOTS where there is no exact amount and pricing is an issue. I tried 5+ mg for my first subq dose. But that was a whole vial 🙂 So I will get a 50+ mg vial/kit next time.

 

[PAPoots]

5 amino 1MQ is trendy for energy and is included in an NAD combo along with MOTS (in an expensive combo vial by the vendor WWB):

View attachment 11084

The problem with 5 amino is playing with the dosing. It is like SS-31 or MOTS where there is no exact amount and pricing is an issue. I tried 5+ mg for my first subq dose. But that was a whole vial 🙂 So I will get a 50 mg vial next time.

I have the MOTS-c and NAD+. I'll have to keep my eye out for the 5 Amino when I get some green to shop with. Lack of energy is my biggest problem. I think the reta is causing that.

 

[Calm Logic]

Yeah, the fatigue from GLPs can really suck but eventually went away for me (unless I up the dose again). I never used controlled substances until I had tirz fatigue (taking modafinil from India and hopping on TRT).

Caffeine pills from Walmart may be just as helpful though (or just raising carb/calorie intake or adding electrolyte drinks if not drinking enough).

Some mild dehyration seems surprisingly common with GLPs due to lessening the desire for everything sometimes.

 

[PAPoots]

I have LIT pre-workout and a few other supps with caffeine, but i gotta get out of bed to get them. 🙂
I'm also in TRT, other than muscle gains, I never got much else.
I started down the mitochondria path hoping sleep would get better, but I think Reta messes my sleep up also. A higher heart rate shows up in my sleep score with a lot of restlessness.

 

[PopTart]

View: https://youtu.be/MPMJLA38o8M?si=HqZrRzuXPIUedmsN

I was pleasantly surprised by this video and that he addressed preventative (younger) vs repair (older) approaches.

I haven’t put much thought into adding 5 AM to the protocol but it sounds like it works like a turbo charger so something to explore.

I subscribed to his YouTube channel so hoping his other videos are as informative as this one.

 

[PAPoots]

I saw that video. I'm really hoping the MOTS-c will do something beneficial and noticeable when I get to that phase of the protocol.

 

[ocuzuc]

Yeah, the fatigue from GLPs can really suck but eventually went away for me (unless I up the dose again). I never used controlled substances until I had tirz fatigue (taking modafinil from India and hopping on TRT).

Caffeine pills from Walmart may be just as helpful though (or just raising carb/calorie intake or adding electrolyte drinks if not drinking enough).

Some mild dehyration seems surprisingly common with GLPs due to lessening the desire for everything sometimes.

same. early 60s. got tirz fatigue so bad i couldn’t keep my eyes open at my desk at work in the afternoons and i would go under. I tried caffeine, lots of it, gave me the jitters, bug time. Tried SAD
bright light therapy, at wake up, which worked up until the afternoon. My doctor gave me an Rx for modafinil. It was amazing. I was just awake, no jitters, no insomnia. I was on it for 3 months and weaned off and the fatigue had faded away, so no need to it anymore.

 

[Calm Logic]

I was pleasantly surprised by this video and that he addressed preventative (younger) vs repair (older) approaches.

I haven’t put much thought into adding 5 AM to the protocol but it sounds like it works like a turbo charger so something to explore.

I subscribed to his YouTube channel so hoping his other videos are as informative as this one.

YouTube AI summary:

Many people use MOTS-C for fat loss and energy but often see minimal results due to not addressing underlying mitochondrial health (0:00). The video explains that NAD+ is crucial for energy production in mitochondria, and its levels decrease with age (1:14).

Here's how the discussed peptides and compounds work:

SS-31 (Elamipretide): Repairs damaged mitochondrial membranes, reducing electron leakage during energy production by 40-60% (1:43). Think of it as a mechanic fixing structural damage (2:08).

MOTS-C: Activates AMPK, your metabolic master switch, improving insulin sensitivity and reducing reactive oxygen species (ROS) production, which damages mitochondria (2:17). It acts as a performance upgrade and a protective system (2:36).
NAD+: Critical for ATP production in the mitochondria (1:21).

5-Amino-1MQ: Prevents energy waste and helps recycle NAD+ for greater efficiency (7:37).

There are two main protocols for using these peptides, both scientifically valid:

Repair First Protocol (4:58): Recommended for individuals aged 35-55 with existing metabolic dysfunction, declining energy, and poor recovery.

Weeks 1-4: Use SS-31 (1-2mg daily) and NAD+ (100mg three times/week) to repair mitochondrial damage and boost cellular fuel (5:05).

Weeks 5-12: Replace SS-31 with MOTS-C (10mg split into three injections/week) and continue NAD+ (100mg three times/week) to optimize the repaired mitochondria (5:26).
Take a 4-8 week break after the 12-week cycle and repeat 2-3 times per year (5:47).
Prevention First Protocol (5:55): Suitable for younger, healthier individuals seeking preventative optimization.

Start with MOTS-C (10mg split into three injections/week) and NAD+ (100mg three times/week) indefinitely with occasional breaks (6:00).

Assess at weeks 4-8: If significant fatigue or metabolic issues persist, add SS-31 (1-2mg daily for 4-8 weeks) while continuing MOTS-C and NAD+ (6:30).
Return to MOTS-C and NAD+ maintenance after the SS-31 cycle (7:00).
Important Considerations:

Cycling: NAD+ supplementation requires cycling (8-12 weeks on, 4-8 weeks off) to prevent resistance and natural NAD+ production suppression (9:11). MOTS-C can be taken long-term with periodic breaks (9:38).

Foundation: These protocols enhance a solid foundation of proper sleep, nutrition, and exercise; they do not replace them (9:06).