What would you do?

keangkong

keangkong

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What would you do? Would you pay for a second order that you didn't make? A friend (okay, I) ordered tadalafil (Cialis) for benign prostate enlargement (okay, erectile dysfunction) from a Chinese grey vendor. When the product didn't arrive after about 4 weeks, I asked why it hadn't yet arrived. The vendor said it has been seized by customs. The vendor said it was going to re-ship the product. About two weeks later, I checked the tracking number from the original product. I learned that the item was now in my state. I Whatsapp'd the vendor telling them that the original shipment went through. The vendor then sent me the tracking number from the second shipment (which had been sent several hours before I contacted the vendor) and asked if I'd pay for the second order. I told the vendor no. The first order has since arrived and works fine. Since that time, I've wonder whether I should have offered to pay for the second order if it arrives. I'm thinking that I'll either continue not to pay anything or offer to pay for the product itself but not the shipping (since if I had ordered that much originally, I would have only paid one shipping fee).
 
I would pay if I like the vendor. Ive seen people say vendors have asked them to do this before too.
 
keangkong said:
What would you do? Would you pay for a second order that you didn't make? A friend (okay, I) ordered tadalafil (Cialis) for benign prostate enlargement (okay, erectile dysfunction) from a Chinese grey vendor. When the product didn't arrive after about 4 weeks, I asked why it hadn't yet arrived. The vendor said it has been seized by customs. The vendor said it was going to re-ship the product. About two weeks later, I checked the tracking number from the original product. I learned that the item was now in my state. I Whatsapp'd the vendor telling them that the original shipment went through. The vendor then sent me the tracking number from the second shipment (which had been sent several hours before I contacted the vendor) and asked if I'd pay for the second order. I told the vendor no. The first order has since arrived and works fine. Since that time, I've wonder whether I should have offered to pay for the second order if it arrives. I'm thinking that I'll either continue not to pay anything or offer to pay for the product itself but not the shipping (since if I had ordered that much originally, I would have only paid one shipping fee).
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I would offer to return it to a US address of their choosing. Unless it’s something I’d be happy to have and use, in which case I’d pay. We expect vendors to act with integrity so we should model the same behavior with the good ones.
 
Depends. Was the packaging good, or did it look like there was a reason to be stuck in customs? Will you use it, or be able to use it before it expires (I don't know anything about this med.)

I wouldn't pay until it arrived regardless, because there is still currently a risk of this second order being held by customs. I'd probably try my luck with asking to pay product price without shipping. If I wasn't going to be able to use it, then I'd throw up the vials in one of the b/s/t groups marked up just enough to cover shipping so I didn't have to deal with whining about shipping prices.
 
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Gonna be blunt but if you're worried about associating a boner with guilt you'd be the FIRST person experiencing that...

And every Catholic, Mormon, Scientologist (because you took a pill and didn't pay to eradicate a theton).

If I got both orders and intended to use the product I'd meet them halfway monetarily. I did this with the stinging Amopure which was effective so I was going to use it. Didn't want to feel like I stole my weightloss.

A problem is that no vendor should want returned product. (Would a pharmacy? Def No) No customer shipped the wrong item should be turned into a drug mule. Yesterday I received Ghk-cu lyophilized instead of cosmetic (Nexha - easy mistake). They immediately shipped correct item and told me to use or discard incorrect ghk-cu (I can't use lyophilized unless I use the whole kit to make one application of face cream).
 
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Not the question you asked but for boner pills, hair pills, or prescription skincare stuff I just use the telehealth option with goodrx and then use a goodrx coupon to purchase from my pharmacy. It ends up being really cheap and low hassle.
 
G Vice said:
When the second order arrives, I would pay the vendor for that second order, and reciprocate the good faith.
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Thanks for the advice. I did receive the second order and am using the first order, which works. I offered to pay the price without the shipping since if I had ordered double the amount the first time, I would have paid only one shipping fee. They don't have much of a choice, since they don't have much of a way of forcing me to pay. And they have to know I'm being reasonable.
 
glpfun said:
Not the question you asked but for boner pills, hair pills, or prescription skincare stuff I just use the telehealth option with goodrx and then use a goodrx coupon to purchase from my pharmacy. It ends up being really cheap and low hassle.
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Amazon also has this. It’s how I get my Tret.
 
keangkong said:
Why?
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A disproportionate amount of US pharma/generics comes from India. It is a big business there so most of the bigger/easier to find good sources are Indian (not Chinese) just like there aren't currently any true Indian GLP makers.

An Indian source selling you cialis for pennies is a common well worn path (every single source I've seen features Cialis/Viagra on their front page). A Chinese source selling you it is vastly less common.
 
rkl123 said:
A disproportionate amount of US pharma/generics comes from India. It is a big business there so most of the bigger/easier to find good sources are Indian (not Chinese) just like there aren't currently any true Indian GLP makers.

An Indian source selling you cialis for pennies is a common well worn path (every single source I've seen features Cialis/Viagra on their front page). A Chinese source selling you it is vastly less common.
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Most Indian pharma is underdosed:
Taladifil - 4.6 mg instead of 5 https://janoshik.com/tests/47067-Vidalista_5_SR8ID1TUBV7K

Telmisartan - 67mg instead of 80 https://janoshik.com/tests/47072-Telmaheal_80_812XFJIGBDRL

Gabapentin- 567mg instead of 600 https://janoshik.com/tests/42783-GABASIGN600_LDB8QR6TZVM2

Yes India is good at mass producing generics but they also have less standards than the US or EU does during production like not testing raws bedore making a batch so it isn’t underdosed. IMO choose whichever one tests better and is cheaper, oftentimes that is China
 
glpfun said:
Most Indian pharma is underdosed:
Taladifil - 4.6 mg instead of 5 https://janoshik.com/tests/47067-Vidalista_5_SR8ID1TUBV7K

Telmisartan - 67mg instead of 80 https://janoshik.com/tests/47072-Telmaheal_80_812XFJIGBDRL

Gabapentin- 567mg instead of 600 https://janoshik.com/tests/42783-GABASIGN600_LDB8QR6TZVM2

Yes India is good at mass producing generics but they also have less standards than the US or EU does during production like not testing raws bedore making a batch so it isn’t underdosed. IMO choose whichever one tests better and is cheaper, oftentimes that is China
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Do you have actual data showing that "most" Indian pharma is underdosed?

Why didn't you cite the location you pulled the listing of these tests from? Fortunately, I was able to find the Telmaheal 80 test by searching for the filename, and I found it in pctzone's thread at steroidsourcetalk. The Vidalista 5 is also from that list.

[SOURCE] PCT.ZONE - USA, UK, EU DOM & INT - Pharma Grade - India Generic Pharma - BEST PRICE GUARANTEE

Hello, I wanted to let you know that the product you requested has already been recently tested, just last month. So, if you decide to proceed with the testing, rest assured that it won't be as uninformed as you might think. You would be sending in the original packaging just as we did with...
www.steroidsourcetalk.cc

There are 12 products listed in that post. Here are the HPLC results for those 12 tests:
Screen Shot 2025-01-20 at 11.24.39 AM.png


Only 2 of the 12 products have a tested value of less than 90% of the claim. Most people would recognize that a 7 or 8% under is within acceptable limits, but even if we include those, that is still only 4 out of 12 underdosed.

Did you find the Telmaheal 80 from pctzone's post? If so, why leave out this context? If you found the results somewhere else, please link to it, otherwise this gives the impression that you are dishonestly cherry picking a single test out of a collection and using it to claim "most" are underdosed, when the very source you got it from shows this not to be the case.

Also the gabapentin 567/600 = 94.5% of the label claim. This is underdosed?? What about something that is 98% of the label claim? Does that also count as underdosed when you say "most Indian pharma is underdosed"? Does 99.99% count as well?

I encourage you to provide untained reliable data to support your claim, otherwise please stop spreading disinformation and misleading people.
 
blueblue said:
Do you have actual data showing that "most" Indian pharma is underdosed?

Why didn't you cite the location you pulled the listing of these tests from? Fortunately, I was able to find the Telmaheal 80 test by searching for the filename, and I found it in pctzone's thread at steroidsourcetalk. The Vidalista 5 is also from that list.

[SOURCE] PCT.ZONE - USA, UK, EU DOM & INT - Pharma Grade - India Generic Pharma - BEST PRICE GUARANTEE

Hello, I wanted to let you know that the product you requested has already been recently tested, just last month. So, if you decide to proceed with the testing, rest assured that it won't be as uninformed as you might think. You would be sending in the original packaging just as we did with...
www.steroidsourcetalk.cc

There are 12 products listed in that post. Here are the HPLC results for those 12 tests:
View attachment 5241

Only 2 of the 12 products have a tested value of less than 90% of the claim. Most people would recognize that a 7 or 8% under is within acceptable limits, but even if we include those, that is still only 4 out of 12 underdosed.

Did you find the Telmaheal 80 from pctzone's post? If so, why leave out this context? If you found the results somewhere else, please link to it, otherwise this gives the impression that you are dishonestly cherry picking a single test out of a collection and using it to claim "most" are underdosed, when the very source you got it from shows this not to be the case.

Also the gabapentin 567/600 = 94.5% of the label claim. This is underdosed?? What about something that is 98% of the label claim? Does that also count as underdosed when you say "most Indian pharma is underdosed"? Does 99.99% count as well?

I encourage you to provide untained reliable data to support your claim, otherwise please stop spreading disinformation and misleading people.
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What a first post!
 
Is there an instruction manual or guidance from ordering from india pharm? Do we have to ... anything different?
 
BeardedGuy said:
Is there an instruction manual or guidance from ordering from india pharm? Do we have to ... anything different?
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Your challenge is to find a legit source. Indiamart is a mess. Like lots of those vendors are probably good. Lots are scammers.

There’s also greater customs risk. Pctzone is an example of one of the better vendors
 
rkl123 said:
Your challenge is to find a legit source. Indiamart is a mess. Like lots of those vendors are probably good. Lots are scammers.

There’s also greater customs risk. Pctzone is an example of one of the better vendors
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I will add to what rkl123 said. Finding a reliable vendor is the important part. From my view, most vendors do not have a presence on the web for interactions with potential customers and vetting, so I recommend researching those that do.

pctzone is on meso, SST, and promuscle
pct24x7 is on meso
cosmicpct is on SST
BGpharma has products from Bulgaria, Greece and Turkey, if you prefer those over India-produced products and they are on meso, SST and promuscle
Read through those threads (yes all of them...every post) and you will get an idea of how things work. There are other sources as well, such as DashPCT but I do not know much about them. One thing to keep in mind is the reship policy. For example, cosmicpct might have a lower stated price for what you want to order compared to pct24x7, but their reship policy might only cover a part of your order where pct24x7 is a little more expensive but will cover full reships if customs seizes your package. I think pctzone will do price matching, but I do not know about the others.

Hopefully other members can add input in this thread with respect to other sources and where to begin researching them.

Nothing in this post is a recommendation for any source. It is a recommendation to do your own reading and make your own decisions.
 
blueblue said:
I will add to what rkl123 said. Finding a reliable vendor is the important part. From my view, most vendors do not have a presence on the web for interactions with potential customers and vetting, so I recommend researching those that do.

pctzone is on meso, SST, and promuscle
pct24x7 is on meso
cosmicpct is on SST
BGpharma has products from Bulgaria, Greece and Turkey, if you prefer those over India-produced products and they are on meso, SST and promuscle
Read through those threads (yes all of them...every post) and you will get an idea of how things work. There are other sources as well, such as DashPCT but I do not know much about them. One thing to keep in mind is the reship policy. For example, cosmicpct might have a lower stated price for what you want to order compared to pct24x7, but their reship policy might only cover a part of your order where pct24x7 is a little more expensive but will cover full reships if customs seizes your package. I think pctzone will do price matching, but I do not know about the others.

Hopefully other members can add input in this thread with respect to other sources and where to begin researching them.

Nothing in this post is a recommendation for any source. It is a recommendation to do your own reading and make your own decisions.
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You're really on a roll. Are you someone's alt account?
 
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Alldaychemist has been a reliable site for me for the last 10 months or so. I've gotten several scripts filled. They take a while to come in, but everything I've gotten has so far been as advertised.
 
chmuse said:
You're really on a roll. Are you someone's alt account?
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No, I just don't have much to say on glp1s because it's not an area I have much knowledge in. I'm from the anabolic world.

I thought the claim that Indian pharma is mostly underdosed should be investigated because I purchase from there and am heavily interested in the quality of what I am getting. Some is, of course, but not by much, from what I've seen. The perspective that you might as well get Chinese UGL instead of Indian pharma is foolish, and even dangerous, in my opinion. If you purchase from a reputable Indian pharma manufacturer (like Sun) your chances of getting a highly overdosed tablet is low, but you can see it happen regularly for Chinese UGL. Take a look through the variance testing over at meso sometime and you'll see what I mean.

Let's say your weekly dose of semaglutide is 2.4 mg, but you accidentally took 4.8 mg because your mixture was overdosed. Probably not something you want to do. Same thing with orals.

Moderate under/overdoses of 15-20% are not great, but I'd rather have that than a batch of pills with some of them being highly overdosed.
 
blueblue said:
No, I just don't have much to say on glp1s because it's not an area I have much knowledge in. I'm from the anabolic world.

I thought the claim that Indian pharma is mostly underdosed should be investigated because I purchase from there and am heavily interested in the quality of what I am getting. Some is, of course, but not by much, from what I've seen. The perspective that you might as well get Chinese UGL instead of Indian pharma is foolish, and even dangerous, in my opinion. If you purchase from a reputable Indian pharma manufacturer (like Sun) your chances of getting a highly overdosed tablet is low, but you can see it happen regularly for Chinese UGL. Take a look through the variance testing over at meso sometime and you'll see what I mean.

Let's say your weekly dose of semaglutide is 2.4 mg, but you accidentally took 4.8 mg because your mixture was overdosed. Probably not something you want to do. Same thing with orals.

Moderate under/overdoses of 15-20% are not great, but I'd rather have that than a batch of pills with some of them being highly overdosed.
Click to expand...
Gotcha. That's part of why testing on glp-1's is so stressed. The 5mg cagri I just got tests at 6.47. That's quite the increase in dosage. My 5mg sema was actually 6.3. I know that it seems to be a concern with the teso so many people here like, too.

To be clear, it was a compliment. I did not actually think you were an alt account.
 
blueblue said:
No, I just don't have much to say on glp1s because it's not an area I have much knowledge in. I'm from the anabolic world.

I thought the claim that Indian pharma is mostly underdosed should be investigated because I purchase from there and am heavily interested in the quality of what I am getting. Some is, of course, but not by much, from what I've seen. The perspective that you might as well get Chinese UGL instead of Indian pharma is foolish, and even dangerous, in my opinion. If you purchase from a reputable Indian pharma manufacturer (like Sun) your chances of getting a highly overdosed tablet is low, but you can see it happen regularly for Chinese UGL. Take a look through the variance testing over at meso sometime and you'll see what I mean.

Let's say your weekly dose of semaglutide is 2.4 mg, but you accidentally took 4.8 mg because your mixture was overdosed. Probably not something you want to do. Same thing with orals.

Moderate under/overdoses of 15-20% are not great, but I'd rather have that than a batch of pills with some of them being highly overdosed.
Click to expand...
My impression is that folks from the anabolic world are the people who really understand the grey market. They've been dealing with it for a long time. They taught the GLP community how to buy.
 
chmuse said:
Gotcha. That's part of why testing on glp-1's is so stressed. The 5mg cagri I just got tests at 6.47. That's quite the increase in dosage. My 5mg sema was actually 6.3. I know that it seems to be a concern with the teso so many people here like, too.

To be clear, it was a compliment. I did not actually think you were an alt account.
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No worries, I figured you were just curious.

I think the emphasis on testing is a very good thing at the core of the glp1 community. As people become more comfortable with vendors there might be a temptation to lose that focus over time, so I'm glad groups and individuals exist to continually remind people of how important it is.
 
keangkong said:
My impression is that folks from the anabolic world are the people who really understand the grey market. They've been dealing with it for a long time. They taught the GLP community how to buy.
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Yeah I think there's some truth in that. There are substantial differences between the two worlds (legality, financial incentive to shut it down, etc), but it seems like the glp1 community took some practices from the anabolic world and really advanced things full speed.
 
blueblue said:
I thought the claim that Indian pharma is mostly underdosed should be investigated because I purchase from there and am heavily interested in the quality of what I am getting. Some is, of course, but not by much, from what I've seen. The perspective that you might as well get Chinese UGL instead of Indian pharma is foolish, and even dangerous, in my opinion. If you purchase from a reputable Indian pharma manufacturer (like Sun) your chances of getting a highly overdosed tablet is low, but you can see it happen regularly for Chinese UGL. Take a look through the variance testing over at meso sometime and you'll see what I mean.

Let's say your weekly dose of semaglutide is 2.4 mg, but you accidentally took 4.8 mg because your mixture was overdosed. Probably not something you want to do. Same thing with orals.

Moderate under/overdoses of 15-20% are not great, but I'd rather have that than a batch of pills with some of them being highly ovoverdosed.
Click to expand...
There seems to be a lack of understanding about why we should test.

Most legit pharmaceuticals are usually precisely measured. If the vial says 50mg Cefazolin and its more or less and the autopsy can prove it, your legal liability goes through the roof.

Grey market vendors don't have that accountability standard. They are happy to underdose or over dose. And the large majority of grey market consumers don't see the problem with inconsistent dosing.
 
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