Will Cagri-Sema Be The New Hotness?

dionysos

dionysos

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Are we wasting our time with Tirzepatide and Retatrutide?

Express your opinions please!

CagriSema Phase Three Studies are in progress right now.

A Phase Two Study showed the amazing CagriSema results I've quoted here:

"a fixed-dose combination therapy of 2.4mg semaglutide with 2.4mg cagrilintide"
... caused a decrease in bodyweight at Week 32 of treatment by 15.6% ...

... Zepbound caused a bodyweight decrease at 72 weeks of 15% from baseline at the lowest dose, and 20.9% at the highest dose (15mg)...

... CagriSema is likely to cause a bigger change in body weight... than even the highest dose of Zepbound ...

Link to CagriSema Phase Two Study:
Novo Nordisk launches trial of pipeline drug CagriSema versus newly approved Zepbound
 
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Not every RS responds the same, benefits and side effects vary dramatically. Good that more options are available especially if they target different receptors. With all the money being exchanged for these medications it is in their best interest to keep finding better mixes, weight loss and muscle preservation etc.
 
dionysos said:
Are we wasting our time with Tirzepatide and Retatrutide?

Express your opinions please!

CagriSema Phase Three Studies are in progress right now.

A Phase Two Study showed the amazing CagriSema results I've quoted here:

"a fixed-dose combination therapy of 2.4mg semaglutide with 2.4mg cagrilintide"
... caused a decrease in bodyweight at Week 32 of treatment by 15.6% ...

... Zepbound caused a bodyweight decrease at 72 weeks of 15% from baseline at the lowest dose, and 20.9% at the highest dose (15mg)...

... CagriSema is likely to cause a bigger change in body weight... than even the highest dose of Zepbound ...

Link to CagriSema Phase Two Study:
Novo Nordisk launches trial of pipeline drug CagriSema versus newly approved Zepbound
Click to expand...
Except that suggested dose of cagri is 0.3-0.6
 
I am involved with healthcare and a lawyer. If anyone needs assistance with finding case law, codes, regs, or medical research white papers, I have access to a few libraries and may able to help.
 
amynurse said:
My RS runs it weekly @ 500mcg. Runs concurrently with 5mg tirz. Increase in weight loss noted the day after each cagri injection. Only SE noted is nausea.
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You’ve just now made me realize how low the dosage is. My RS is only on week 2 of T and have found the next day and two days after shot day is notably higher in weight drops. I wonder if it’s similar across all GLP’s
 
astroman said:
You’ve just now made me realize how low the dosage is. My RS is only on week 2 of T and have found the next day and two days after shot day is notably higher in weight drops. I wonder if it’s similar across all GLP’s
Click to expand...
Yeah, starting dose of cagri is 300mcg. I started at 250mcg. Had strong suppression, but it faded after only 48 hours. So far just that small bump extends the effects another 48 hours out. Then the tirz covers on the back end.
I've noticed weight drops are quicker after cagri. My RS doses tirz on Saturday, and that drop isn't until Monday or Tuesday. Weird.
 
So tirz>sema.
Cagri-sema> Tirz.

Do Cagri and Sema have any special interaction? If not it would seem to imply that the combo of Cagri and Sema together are a pharmaceutical quirk: that instead the right move would be Cagri-tirz
 
rkl123 said:
So tirz>sema.
Cagri-sema> Tirz.

Do Cagri and Sema have any special interaction? If not it would seem to imply that the combo of Cagri and Sema together are a pharmaceutical quirk: that instead the right move would be Cagri-tirz
Click to expand...
Cagri and Sema were designed to be given together, by Novo Nordisk. Cagri-tirz can be done in a research capacity, but NN and EL would rather burn at the stake than let them be combined pharmaceutically 🤣
 
amynurse said:
Yeah, starting dose of cagri is 300mcg. I started at 250mcg. Had strong suppression, but it faded after only 48 hours. So far just that small bump extends the effects another 48 hours out. Then the tirz covers on the back end.
I've noticed weight drops are quicker after cagri. My RS doses tirz on Saturday, and that drop isn't until Monday or Tuesday. Weird.
Click to expand...
That’s so interesting, especially since there’s not a big drop in dosage level within the system until day 5-6. On week one of 2.5T, my RS had SIGNIFICANT suppression, but not much this week. Thought maybe adding Cag could help on the back end, without increasing T dosage so soon.
 
amynurse said:
Cagri and Sema were designed to be given together, by Novo Nordisk. Cagri-tirz can be done in a research capacity, but NN and EL would rather burn at the stake than let them be combined pharmaceutically 🤣
Click to expand...
I’ve recently heard of CagriSema (not named by yours truly). I would like to see some studies in that combo in comparison to just T or the CT combo.
 
astroman said:
That’s so interesting, especially since there’s not a big drop in dosage level within the system until day 5-6. On week one of 2.5T, my RS had SIGNIFICANT suppression, but not much this week. Thought maybe adding Cag could help on the back end, without increasing T dosage so soon.
Click to expand...
My RS had a similar outcome the second and third week. First week was killer....but RS has a fast metabolism. 5mg seems to be a good spot for now, we'll see in a few more weeks. The cagri absolutely helps on days 5-7 of tirz!
 
astroman said:
I’ve recently heard of CagriSema (not named by yours truly). I would like to see some studies in that combo in comparison to just T or the CT combo.
Click to expand...
There are preliminary reports out, I'll see if I can find one. So far, CS is just slightly out-performing tirz.
 
According to a Phase II trial of CagriSema (NCT04982575), the combination therapy caused a decrease in bodyweight at Week 32 of treatment by 15.6% from baseline. On the other hand, in the SURMOUNT-1 Phase III trial (NCT04184622), Zepbound caused a bodyweight decrease at 72 weeks of 15% from baseline at the lowest dose, and 20.9% at the highest dose (15mg). These results suggest that CagriSema is likely to cause a bigger change in body weight from baseline than even the highest dose of Zepbound, in a fixed amount of time.
 
amynurse said:
According to a Phase II trial of CagriSema (NCT04982575), the combination therapy caused a decrease in bodyweight at Week 32 of treatment by 15.6% from baseline. On the other hand, in the SURMOUNT-1 Phase III trial (NCT04184622), Zepbound caused a bodyweight decrease at 72 weeks of 15% from baseline at the lowest dose, and 20.9% at the highest dose (15mg). These results suggest that CagriSema is likely to cause a bigger change in body weight from baseline than even the highest dose of Zepbound, in a fixed amount of time.
Click to expand...
www.clinicaltrialsarena.com

Novo Nordisk launches trial of pipeline drug CagriSema versus newly approved Zepbound

On 8 November, Eli Lilly received FDA approval for Zepbound (tirzepatide), its glucagon-like GLP-1/GIP dual agonist for patients with obesity.
www.clinicaltrialsarena.com www.clinicaltrialsarena.com
 
amynurse said:
Cagri and Sema were designed to be given together, by Novo Nordisk. Cagri-tirz can be done in a research capacity, but NN and EL would rather burn at the stake than let them be combined pharmaceutically 🤣
Click to expand...
Sema came out long ago. Was cagri truly designed for a special synergy...or was it "sema is being out competed, cagri looks decent and hits an independent receptor, let's try them together to have something competitive?"
 
rkl123 said:
Sema came out long ago. Was cagri truly designed for a special synergy...or was it "sema is being out competed, cagri looks decent and hits an independent receptor, let's try them together to have something competitive?"
Click to expand...
But truthfully, is that bad business? I’d do it.

-Astroman, MBA
 
rkl123 said:
Sema came out long ago. Was cagri truly designed for a special synergy...or was it "sema is being out competed, cagri looks decent and hits an independent receptor, let's try them together to have something competitive?"
Click to expand...
You're right. Should have said they were combined by NN.
 
rkl123 said:
Agree. I don't mean to come off as critical of the approach. Rather I'm wondering if as neutral third parties, is there not reason to suspect a more powerful combo is doable?
Click to expand...
I think that’s where I wanted this thread to take us 🙂
 
exploitedworkerbee said:
Cagri-tirz is stall-breaking magic in my experience. Adding cagri broke an 8 month stall, then coasted to goal weight. Downside is pretty significant fatigue but it was worth it.
Click to expand...
I promise I’m not being pessimistic, but 8 months?! You have so much more patience than I. Also, did you ever try B12 to help combat the fatigue?
 
exploitedworkerbee said:
Cagri-tirz is stall-breaking magic in my experience. Adding cagri broke an 8 month stall, then coasted to goal weight. Downside is pretty significant fatigue but it was worth it.
Click to expand...
What dose broke your stall and what other med did you stack with, if any? What are your thoughts on the ph questions/issues surrounding cagri? Did you do anything specific with concern to pH or did you just recon as usual and it worked as intended?
 
astroman said:
I promise I’m not being pessimistic, but 8 months?! You have so much more patience than I. Also, did you ever try B12 to help combat the fatigue?
Click to expand...
I tried lots of things to break the stall: reta, high-dose sema (7.2mg), a reset then tirz. I didn’t try b12 for the fatigue, I just got through it and am now transitioning to reta for maintenance
 
exploitedworkerbee said:
I tried lots of things to break the stall: reta, high-dose sema (7.2mg), a reset then tirz. I didn’t try b12 for the fatigue, I just got through it and am now transitioning to reta for maintenance
Click to expand...
This makes a lot more sense. I assumed the worse — you didn’t make any changes to try to break it. What made you decide reta for maintenance?
 
MiniatureSnail said:
What dose broke your stall and what other med did you stack with, if any? What are your thoughts on the ph questions/issues surrounding cagri? Did you do anything specific with concern to pH or did you just recon as usual and it worked as intended?
Click to expand...
I was at 15mg tirz. Added cagri, started low (.2mg in think) and worked up to 2.5mg. My body has a high tolerance for drugs, it’s a blessing and a curse. Most people would probably get the same effect with much lower doses.

The pH stuff is a baseless panic as far as I can tell. The cagri worked just fine several weeks after being reconstituted. That whole pH thing was based on a misunderstanding of a research paper and really took on a life of its own.
 
astroman said:
This makes a lot more sense. I assumed the worse — you didn’t make any changes to try to break it. What made you decide reta for maintenance?
Click to expand...
Less fatigue than sema or tirz, and I can actually enjoy food on it. We’ll see what happens though, the heart rate increase isn’t ideal. Watching it closely, if it doesn’t go down I’ll probably just switch back to tirz.
 
exploitedworkerbee said:
Less fatigue than sema or tirz, and I can actually enjoy food on it. We’ll see what happens though, the heart rate increase isn’t ideal. Watching it closely, if it doesn’t go down I’ll probably just switch back to tirz.
Click to expand...
Out of curiosity, how high is your HR?
 
exploitedworkerbee said:
At rest it’s mid-90s at the moment, which isn’t the end of the world, what bugs me is that after working out it takes forever to come back down. So I’ll be sitting there for like 30 minutes with a 135 hr
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This is why my RS can't ever try reta. RS has hyperadrenergic POTS....in TLDR, that means RS's HR and BP spike when going from seated/lying to standing. It eventually evens out to normal, but it's not fun. Taking a hot shower=130-150HR. RS will likely microdose cagrisema or cagritirz once at goal weight. Or maybe some of the others in the pipeline will be an option by then. 🤷‍♀️
 
exploitedworkerbee said:
Cagri-tirz is stall-breaking magic in my experience. Adding cagri broke an 8 month stall, then coasted to goal weight. Downside is pretty significant fatigue but it was worth it.
Click to expand...
Man combine cagri and some benadryl and I can just sleep till the weight is gone 🤣

In all seriousness, did you feel any fatigue on triz? Being fatigued is the only real side effect my RS has experienced on triz and while not debilitating, it definitely sucks.

Edit: I see you had fatigue on triz in a later post. My bad.
 
rkl123 said:
So tirz>sema.
Cagri-sema> Tirz.
Click to expand...
This is neither supported by the data (tirz - 21% weight loss at 36 weeks; cagrisema - 15% weight loss at 32 weeks), nor would it be true for every individual. I think I would cease to function if I took cagrisema, given they are both extremely potent on delaying gastric emptying. 100mcg of cagri is enough for me to feel like absolute crap every time I eat for the first couple days.
 
amynurse said:
This is why my RS can't ever try reta. RS has hyperadrenergic POTS....in TLDR, that means RS's HR and BP spike when going from seated/lying to standing. It eventually evens out to normal, but it's not fun. Taking a hot shower=130-150HR. RS will likely microdose cagrisema or cagritirz once at goal weight. Or maybe some of the others in the pipeline will be an option by then. 🤷‍♀️
Click to expand...
Pots is a b****. I just got tested for it and fortunately came back normal, but I swear. Couldn’t be the severe anxiety or 190/110 BP 😂
 
astroman said:
Pots is a b****. I just got tested for it and fortunately came back normal, but I swear. Couldn’t be the severe anxiety or 190/110 BP 😂
Click to expand...
That's really high, for not having POTS! Are you on statins or anything for it? My RS has the wonderful trifecta that is Ehlers Danlos/POTS/MCAS. Yay, I guess 🎉🤣
 
astroman said:
I’ve recently heard of CagriSema (not named by yours truly). I would like to see some studies in that combo in comparison to just T or the CT combo.
Click to expand...
I actually tried to get in on one of those research studies before I found the wonderful world of Peptides, but they were full by the time I signed up.
 
exploitedworkerbee said:
Cagri-tirz is stall-breaking magic in my experience. Adding cagri broke an 8 month stall, then coasted to goal weight. Downside is pretty significant fatigue but it was worth it.
Click to expand...
Can I ask what dose you started on with Cagri? I have stalled huge with Oz. I have added tirz mid week and nothing...
 
Tomes said:
This is neither supported by the data (tirz - 21% weight loss at 36 weeks; cagrisema - 15% weight loss at 32 weeks), nor would it be true for every individual. I think I would cease to function if I took cagrisema, given they are both extremely potent on delaying gastric emptying. 100mcg of cagri is enough for me to feel like absolute crap every time I eat for the first couple days.
Click to expand...
Is 100mcg your starting dose? Looking to do this now. Thanks.
 
astroman said:
You’ve just now made me realize how low the dosage is. My RS is only on week 2 of T and have found the next day and two days after shot day is notably higher in weight drops. I wonder if it’s similar across all GLP’s
Click to expand...
Interesting. I find my noticable drops also happen day 2 after injection. I thought just water, but it’s pretty consistent week after week, month after month. Only a pound or two a week, but pretty steady. Down almost 60 so far.
 
astroman said:
Pots is a b****. I just got tested for it and fortunately came back normal, but I swear. Couldn’t be the severe anxiety or 190/110 BP 😂
Click to expand...
My daughter has POTS symptoms. It did not show up in table test, Dr said sometimes the test does not work, she’s had issues for years.
 
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