Best pep for building muscle and definition
- Thread starter CacaoPower
- Start date
raw_oyster_eater
lemon bottle brewer
i'm waiting for shit that we can just inject into our muscles and get ripped.
the hours some people put in at a gym is a waste of life.
the hours some people put in at a gym is a waste of life.
scarywood75
Scarlett Johansson
Uther, GYC, Amo, SRY, there's a ton available.
Make sure you read and understand the pros and cons of each before purchasing anything
“At 10 weeks, the men given 600 mg/week of testosterone enanthate who did not exercise had put on more muscle mass than the men who were not on testosterone and who did exercise.”
raw_oyster_eater
lemon bottle brewer
i was always told if you do AAS you still have to put in the work. maybe not?
Worth a try. lol
Well that must have been a one-off. Placed another order on 3/27 with Uther, paid extra for FedEx shipping. They shipped it DHL and tracking says expected delivery on 4/8.
Depends on your goal.
Doing a bunch of AAS will add muscle regardless.
But most of the people doing AAS are on them because they want to look pretty jacked. That'll take hard work, too.
AAS have a twofold impact on your muscle mass - they just add it regardless because they signal your body to build more muscle, but they also improve your overall ability to recover from resistance training, which allows you to do more of it. We don't have extensive studies on how they directly impact muscle protein synthesis from resistance training, as in if the same gym program on roids will give you better gains than the same program off (+ the in-built additional muscle just from being on them), but the limited ones we do suggest that there isn't much, if any impact there.
But if you take two twins, give them both gear, and one trains hard and the other doesn't, the one training is going to put on significantly more muscle.
raw_oyster_eater
lemon bottle brewer
i just remember years ago with the bros and they warned me if i didn't work hard on AAS i'd just get fat.
good to know there is some middle ground. i want to build a core. don't care about anything else.
There's a lot of potential reasons that you want to train concurrently with them besides the muscle growth side of things, but yeah, you will gain muscle.
The problem with doing higher quantities while larger or out of shape would be
Automatizing more - more of the testosterone will convert to estrogen
Blood pressure/heart rate issues - They tend to raise both BP and heart rate at blast-levels of dosing
Lipids - Crush your HDL, boost your LDL, same with LpA/LipoB
Hematocrit - Significantly increase your blood thickness
Left Ventricular Hypertrophy - Grow your heart in undesirable ways
Lower body weight/more activity (both resistance training + cardio)/etc. help mitigate these. It's a non-exhaustive list too, since there's stuff I'm missing, things that I left out that are an issue whether you are active and at a low bf% anyway, etc. Just tried to focus on some of the stuff that tends to be worse for less active and higher bf% people.
Even though at this point I'm lifting 5 days a week and doing a few hours of cardio split between the week, I'm still avoiding blast dosages like they used in that study because I'm worried about the health impacts.
Blitziod
New_Member
If you’re taking AAS you need to be on an aromatase inhibitor like anastrozole. Especially if you’re even slightly overweight. Otherwise you’re getting fat and you’ll grow breasts. Also it will hurt your muscle growth
Also give blood to lower your hemocrit. Once every 4 months will do it. .
Estrogen is cardioprotective and neuroprotective, as well as being anabolic itself. Plenty of overweight people aromatize at lower rates than skinny people - fat cells will aromatize more as a general rule, but genetic variance on aromatization rates is huge. Many of the most informed doctors will have you take an AI based on symptoms rather than blanket prescribing it. Crashing your estrogen is an awful experience and keeping it artificially low limits the beneficial effects that estrogen provides.
Blood donation is a poor substitute for cardio and upping your hydration. Bodies adapt to regular blood donation and increase RBC production, and hematocrit and rbc levels bounce back quickly in general.
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Healthmaster
New_Member
Some of the best advice I have ever heard right here. Awesome knowledge.
BillGoldberg
New_Member
As do I. My city is still ravaged by the opioid epidemic. Glad to be on the other side. Proud of you if you are doing well. I work in a jail and see how bad the situation still is. It’s not getting any better out there. Stay on the right track.
BillGoldberg
New_Member
This is horrible advice. You should only take an AI if you need one. AI is like the last resort. Have a lot of undesirable side effects. Not to mention crashing your estrogen which is definitely not what you want to do. And like other people have mentioned a little higher estrogen will assist in muscle gains.
Blitziod
New_Member
As somebody who is on T replacement let me tell you how you do it. Yes you should use the AI to treat symptoms… BUT you also will want to take dose weekly regularly. And of course you monitor your estrogen , test and free test levels with regular blood work. If you’re taking a decent size dose of steroids , you’ll make PLENTY of estrogen so using AI just keeps it normal , not crashed. And you WILL crash your estrogen while the trying to get your dose dialed in. It’s just gonna happen. And yes it sucks. You’ll also get too much E at some point and have symptoms ( feeling emotional , loss of erection /
Libido , sore nipples , etc ).
Blood donation isn’t supposed to be a substitute for lifestyle changes. But it’s really necessary if you’re getting higher hematocrit levels. I have to donate a few times a YEAR to keep mine down. My doctor prescribed donation 1x a month IF needed. But in practice I’ve had normal levels 2-3 months following donation. Sometimes longer. So , at least for me , levels don’t bounce back all that fast. They do probably get to “ normal “ pretty fast. It just takes them a long time to get to “ high” in fact I had to have the dr change my script cuz I was going in too often to donate and having levels lower than the number he wrote down , but still safe to donate. It was annoying to have to make an appt and then get sent home. So now I just donate anyway and unusually have normal or slightly elevated on my blood work depending on how long I go.
The fact is , your hormones are complex. Doing any long term steroids without getting labs is asking for trouble.
And i should have mentioned you should be using HCG to keep yourself fertile and to keep your testicles healthy. You’ll get atrophy long term if you don’t.
As for this being bad advice , the dr I’m seeing works at a teaching hospital and is pretty respected. It’s advice from him. Of course it’s specific to me. I don’t recommend taking male hormones without a dr involved.
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And I'm on TRT being managed by people who have specialized in it since before it became popular. That doesn't mean that I'm a good source of information.
I do not take an AI on a regular dose (I did try some with Primo for two weeks but it increase my RHR too much for me to worry about it at the levels I was using - fine for a cycle, but not worth the tiny bit of anabolism at low levels long term) and have no issues with any high estrogen symptoms, nor have I crashed my e2.
Glad the blood donations are working for you. For many they don't make significant improvements compared to managing fluid intake and cardio.
HCG increases the difficulty in managing e2 so I would say only take it if you actually care about fertility and ball size. I don't, so I'm skipping it. Majority of people (but not all, so it is still a risk) can go on HCG later and get all the same benefits, balls return to their former size, good sperm motility, etc.
Yankeegurl_LQJ
New_Member
Thank you. I plan on it. ONE DAY AT A TIME!
Blitziod
New_Member
“Regular dose “ is kinda weird. I get a script for AI. But I kinda learned to “ feel” my levels. Of course testing is a big part of that. I take a pill every week or every other week depending on how my symptoms are. I can take up to 3 a week , if I follow the script. I take a fairly low dose and anastrozole has a half life of 2 days. So I’m never not making E. And I take 2 shots of T a week plus a shot of HCG.
As I’ve lost weight I’m finding a reduction in the need for ai. And I’m probably going to lower my T dose in june when I have more labs and a dr visit.
Calm Logic
Registered
And not too bad regarding side effects, considering a study for 26 weeks non-stop (though at a much lower dose):
Testosterone Therapy With Subcutaneous Injections: A Safe, Practical, and Reasonable Option - PMC
Injections with intramuscular (IM) testosterone esters have been available for almost 8 decades and not only result in predictable serum testosterone levels but are also the most inexpensive modality. However, they are difficult to self-administer ...pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Serum DHT and estradiol concentrations remain stable with few fluctuations after SC injections of testosterone enanthate...
In a large study that used an SC autoinjector to administer weekly doses of testosterone enanthate (50-100 mg/week) for 26 weeks, 87 of 133 participants experienced a treatment-emergent adverse event (an adverse event that started or worsened after the first dose) during the study (29). The majority of these events were mild to moderate, although 5 patients experienced severe events. Three patients developed erythrocytosis that resulted in their discontinuation from the study. In a similar study by the same investigators in 150 hypogonadal men, 125 participants experienced a treatment-emergent adverse event, with 30 discontinuing therapy as a result of these events.
The most frequent events were erythrocytosis (21 men; 7 discontinued), hypertension (19 men; 1 discontinued), and increase in serum prostate-specific antigen of 1.4 ng/mL or greater from baseline (18 men; 13 discontinued). Though erythrocytosis and increase in prostate-specific antigen levels are known adverse effects of testosterone therapy (1), the incidences of such events after SC administration appear to be higher than those reported in studies of transdermal testosterone.
Because studies of SC testosterone therapy are limited, this needs to be verified in future studies. As for hypertension, approximately half of the participants had a history of hypertension at enrollment, and increases in systolic and diastolic blood pressures during testosterone therapy were considered to be of small magnitude (4.1 mm Hg for systolic and 1.4 mm Hg for diastolic blood pressure) (27); the implications of these changes on cardiovascular risk remain unclear.
Regarding PSA going up, there are various supplements that can help, including pumpkin seed oil, which is also a source of omega-3s. Another one is pygeum, which may also be good for kidney health.
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