This is starting to sound erratic and unsafe. You went from 1 mg to 4 mg in 1 week, while still combining with tirz?
I'm going to shoot for losing 100 pounds in 6 months
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raw_oyster_eater
lemon bottle brewer
I slowly ramped reta at 1mg for a couple weeks then 2mg for a couple weeks from a 6mg vial from peptide science. Then a got a new 22mg vial from ac peptides on last Wednesday and did 1mg as a test since it was a new vial. Then 3mg the next day. I think that's conservative. I was on the 2.5 of tirz but ramping down as I ramped reta. I'll look thru my diary and post every shot I've had.
This needs some trial and error just like everyone else is doing. I don't feel comfortable stacking as you don't know if they react with each other or fight each other etc. I think I'm safer than many others as I'm being very conservative with dosing. I think I may be able to lose a lot of weight on the minimum dose.
This needs some trial and error just like everyone else is doing. I don't feel comfortable stacking as you don't know if they react with each other or fight each other etc. I think I'm safer than many others as I'm being very conservative with dosing. I think I may be able to lose a lot of weight on the minimum dose.
raw_oyster_eater
lemon bottle brewer
When I say sick I just mean I ate too many. I didn't actually get sick and never have been on raw oysters.
They eat raw clams here in mass and those are really good too. Sweet and crunchy.
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Ones I got in Cali were imported from
Asia ….. 105 temp and projectile vomiting and diarrhea…yuck
. In south Mississippi and Louisiana we had almost all of our oyster bed killed due to Katrina, BP oil spill and the Bonne Carre spillway … when I go home I buy from a company that actually cultures oysters and irradiates them …. They are great
raw_oyster_eater
lemon bottle brewer
It was so much fun getting fat. Once or twice i year i get a big box of boudin from Cajun Grocer. I got my oysters for .15 at some bar i don't remember the name. I felt guilty i was working the shucker so hard and would always try and leave a nice tip.
Broken Chef
Advanced Researcher
Nevermind, I posted half way through the first page.... Then made a bag of popcorn.
Following...
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Following...
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MrsRoper_1977
Advanced Researcher
Thanks for sharing this tip.🎉 I’m really trying to up my protein. This sounds like an excellent supplement to add. Thank you!
icebear
New Member
this sounds like a very dangerous potential pipeline to an eating disorder. at least invest some of your grocery budget to meal replacements as those have at least some vitamins and minerals. track your fats too.
goodvibes671
New Member
You’re very welcome!!
raw_oyster_eater
lemon bottle brewer
Check out the r/fasting (reddit) They've got me convinced fasting is a really good thing. I'm going to try and work my way up to a week. I just did a 3 day stint from noon on Sunday to noon Wednesday.
goodvibes671
New Member
Autophagy (prolonged fasting) does wonders for loose skin, among other benefits! Although, like most things in life, you have to be careful to not go overboard with excessive periods and frequency of prolonged fasting. But if done in moderation, it has significant benefits!
Broken Chef
Advanced Researcher
Based on other reddit advice I've seen, and the misinformation surrounding peptides there, I'm a bit hesitant to trust "I read it on the internet, so it must be true".
I do hope this works out for you and others and will be following your journey. I have a feeling sema won't get me to my goal, and it certainly hasn't got me to the point where I'm able to not eat at all for days. Perhaps when sema stalls and I switch to tirz and/or reta, I'll be ready for this...
I do protein smoothies and add Garden of Life meal replacement powder, but I'm slowly working my way into this, rather than jumping off a cliff into the waterfall without a life jacket. But I'm not as trusting as others and want to see proof of several others jumping and surviving first.. and if I jump, I'll be wearing a life jacket, lol
My grandpa used to say: "Believe nothing you hear or read, and only half of what you see". It was more than pure luck that got him home alive from Utah Beach in 1944.
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icebear
New Member
yeah, my biggest concern is how is fasting to lose weight as fast as possible developing any sustainable lifestyle changes or habits for long term weight management if OP ever plans to get off this peptide. i think it's just unnecessary. i'm not denying fasting has its benefits but most of the clinical studies i've looked at surround mostly intermittent fasting rather than prolonged periods and OP even wants to work up to a whole week.
raw_oyster_eater
lemon bottle brewer
I agree, it is unnecessary. I'm an impatient person and I'm really sick of being heavy. The other thing is it gets addictive as you have warned. I get a certain high from fasting and I believe in the theory of cellular repair so I'm going to do some experimentation. I also get a great feeling from the reta, so I have to guard against increasing the dose if I don't absolutely have to. I've never done any pot or anything so if this is my one thing I'm OK with it.
I have not tried sema or cagri but have both on the way.
I've gotten into juicing as part of the calorie reduction plan so maybe that's one good thing that will stick.
Broken Chef
Advanced Researcher
I'll put a warning here - jabberjaw is about to write a novel...
I do wish you luck and good health.. and thank you for your willingness to be a "test dummy". I understand impatience and intolerance of the extra weight. I'm impatient as well, but have enough health issues to contend with, without creating more.
@icebear My insurance stopped paying for Ozempic after 6 months. I dropped 40#, but gained back 15 during the 2 months of research before finding an affordable option.
I've seen others talk about staying on a 1mg dose of sema, after reaching weight goal on various others, as maintenance. At china prices, that's about $10/month including all supplies, so if that's what it takes to get me through the last 20 years of my life, so be it. Hopefully there aren't long term use implications, but until that info comes out, I'll take that bet.
One of my biggest issues is the other meds I take. Remeron makes me ravenous and crave sugar/carbs, but it's the only psych med, out of dozens I've tried over the years, that actually works, so I'll fight to the death to stay on it, and do whatever it takes to combat the food noise, but even if it means dying as a "fat bastard" (cue Austin Powers theme song) .. at least I'll be a happy(ier) fat bastard.
I was a certified dietary manager the last 7 years of my career, so I have the knowledge, just not the will power to fight the constant, jet propelled, food noise that comes with Remeron.
I'll slowly work on changing over the majority of my food intake to delicious protein smoothies with Garden of Life meal replacement powder.
My smoothies aren't nauseatingly nutritious, but they are better than pounds of junk food, and taste good enough that I enjoy them - making it sustainable . I feel like I can gradually make them more nutritious without making that sudden change from delicious to blech!
@raw_oyster_eater
Try this:
1/2 cup pineapple
1/2 cup mango
1/2 cup strawberries
1 small banana
3-4 Tbsp Greek yogurt (I currently use Greek Gods vanilla honey - it's pretty high in fat/sugar)
4-6oz whole milk
Blend well then add:
1 heaping scoop Promix unflavored gras fed whey isolate
1 scoop Garden of Life lightly sweet meal replacement
Blend about 30 seconds
I've found that if I add the powders at the beginning, the smoothie is overly foamy, so I put them in at the end after the fruit is well blended. The yogurt can make it foamy too, so you could add that with the powders at the end, if you prefer.
And I buy the fruit fresh, ripen it, cut it up and freeze it.. it's much better than buying the bags of unripe frozen fruit. I picked 80# of strawberries this spring, topped, 1/4'd, and froze.
Sometimes I'll leave out the banana and Garden of Life and double the protein powder. The banana masks the blech from the garden of life powder... Some great reviews on Amazon for this stuff... If you see the LONG post where the guy refers to the south end of a north bound rhino, you found the right one.
Some protein powders are just plain nasty, no matter what you do to them. Unflavored Promix Whey Isolate is exceptionally lacking in the blech department. 5 stars as far as whey is concerned.
I can't do sugar substitutes - so nasty ::chef shivers and cringes:: Garden of Life - lightly sweet version - does have some stevia, but not noticable.
I'll slowly work towards fat free Greek yogurt and skim milk.
This smoothie won't work with your ketosis, but if you decide to go another route, this smoothie is about as good as it gets, imo.
Oh, I've had kidney stones that required a trip to the hospital for a Dilaudid injection because 30mg morphine wasn't enough, so that's a hard pass on a diet that has kidney stones as a "side effect"!! I was certain something ruptured inside me and I was minutes from death. No thank you!
Pioneers are the ones with arrows in their backs.
Glad your grandfather made it back home!
raw_oyster_eater
lemon bottle brewer
Thanks for all the info broken chef. I'm assuming you are a chef?
I'm too lazy to make that smoothy. I just run by a juice place and get a celery or cucumber or radish and cucumber juice. They hardly have any calories and are filling. I don't do any fruits with all the sugar.
I had done 2mg reta on Thursday and drove into Boston yesterday for work. The drive home killed me, and I just felt depleted, so I just gave myself another 2mg this morning to try and reenergize myself. Tip for getting into or out of Boston. If you want to avoid soul crushing traffic, go between midnight and 3am. There's really no other good time.
My wife always scopes out some interesting place to get takeout when I go into the big city. I brought home Polish food. It gave us loose digestion. We're finding that lately, spending big bucks on takeout does not assure you're getting anything good. I've had the mindset that I paid a bunch of money for food so I need to finish it. Now I'm more OK with not eating something that's not enjoying and putting it in the back yard for the skunks.
I'm too lazy to make that smoothy. I just run by a juice place and get a celery or cucumber or radish and cucumber juice. They hardly have any calories and are filling. I don't do any fruits with all the sugar.
I had done 2mg reta on Thursday and drove into Boston yesterday for work. The drive home killed me, and I just felt depleted, so I just gave myself another 2mg this morning to try and reenergize myself. Tip for getting into or out of Boston. If you want to avoid soul crushing traffic, go between midnight and 3am. There's really no other good time.
My wife always scopes out some interesting place to get takeout when I go into the big city. I brought home Polish food. It gave us loose digestion. We're finding that lately, spending big bucks on takeout does not assure you're getting anything good. I've had the mindset that I paid a bunch of money for food so I need to finish it. Now I'm more OK with not eating something that's not enjoying and putting it in the back yard for the skunks.
moonpies4misfits
Advanced Researcher
I wouldn't worry about getting to the darkest shade on those testing strips. If it changes color, you're in ketosis, simple as that. Darker results could simply be an indicator of dehydration. You could be in the same level of ketosis and the shade can change drastically simply by adjusting your water intake.
Those actors also add a little sprinkle of testosterone, maybe some mastering, anavar etc. that way they keep their muscle mass.
Also, hitting the gym is generally going to give better results than just biking (or both). I would strongly recommend doing some weight lifting
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You're an adult so I trust you to figure out what's best for you, but I will tell you from personal experience having lost over 100lbs in a little over 6 months once many years ago on fen/phen that the biggest negative I experienced is the skin can't keep up with such a high rate of weight loss in a short amount of time and never really recovers. 25 years later I imagine there is better info out there on what kind of supplements etc. might help so you may want to look into that along your journey.
Good luck and keep us posted on your progress!
I would strongly recommend that you reconsider dropping weight that rapidly, for several reasons. The main one being that it is rather unhealthy and comes with a bunch of potential side effects.
You will lose a significant amount of muscle mass in such a deficit, unless you supplement with aas.
Dropping weight that rapidly will most likely cause you to have a large amount of loose skin, which only gets worse by the muscle loss.
A very restricted diet is likely to cause deficiencies unless your nutrition is spot on (supplementation does help though).
It will also be very difficult to maintain your achieved weight loss after such a rapid drop, the rebound might be very significant - Since you won't really build any sustainable habits when doing it this way.
I believe it's better to use time as an aid, drop slowly while gradually making changes to your lifestyle and habits that can help you effortlessly maintain your weight loss for 10,20,30+ years, even without medication.
So what if it takes a year or two instead of 6months? You want to keep the results for way longer than that, take your time and don't stress it - focus on your well being and mindset, that's honestly more important.
Too much focus on an arbitrary weight goal is quite likely to cause stress discontent and body dysmorphia.
I have been at 10-12% bodyfat with a bmi of almost 40. And i still felt self conscious at the beach, small when comparing myself to others, in the mirror i looked like a piece of dough. So please, focus on the journey and the improvements you do, not on a goal you want to rush towards.
All of the above are of course my personal opinions, and not me telling you that my way is the right way - You should do what makes you happy and what works for you. But be careful about rushing the process towards an arbitrary goal 🙂
raw_oyster_eater
lemon bottle brewer
can you elaborate on the items you suggested?
All my mass is in my core and i can feel it shrinking and i'm getting really stoked. I don't mind if i lose some muscle mass as i've always had really thick muscular thighs and core. I've always tried to get the abs to pop but, extensively working my stomach/core just made me look thick and i don't like it.
Yes, my phone autocorrected, I meant to say masterone.
These are all anabolic/androgenic steroids, so I'm unsure if it's suitable on this board, let me know if I'm over a line.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
NB: This is not a recommendation to use these drugs, and there can be severe side effects, especially if you have cardiovascular issues, high cholesterol, kidney/liver issues etc.
I just feel like some discussion around it is healthy, considering some transformations you see on social media, celebrities etc - which are simply not achievable through peptides alone.
Keep in mind that steroids generally are unhealthy, no question about it. So it is a risk/reward thing, but definitely not something to take lightly or do on a whim.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
Before considering any kind of anabolics, keep in mind that they are generally harsher on your body than the peptides you already take. And there are more considerations to make before adding it to your current treatment. They are also banned in a different way than what peptides are most places.
First off, all of them can impact blood pressure and cholesterol quite badly - there are definitely individual differences as with anything, but I do recommend a lot more caution if you consider adding any anabolic - especially if you have any weight related issues/diseases.
Testosterone everyone has some kind of relationship to, the higher your testosterone level is - the more it takes for your body to go catabolic, so you can diet harder without losing muscle mass as long as you have enough protein - there is definitely a limit to this of course, and the more you take the more effect (and side effects) you get.
Personally I think a low dose trt can have more health benefits than demerits for most men at 40+. But that is also individual and situational, so it's best to consult a doctor and do some blood panels.
But generally, testosterone would be considered the safest anabolic steroid to use. I have seen very good results with the combination and glp-1s. But I was not able to find any studies supporting any synergetic effect, I believe it's just that both works but with different mechanics.
Testosterone comes in injectable form and as a cream/patch. There are some orals, but I don't know enough about them to make an educated statement since I never read up on it since it adds a toll on the liver and I don't see why anyone would do that when there is no need.
As for the others mentioned:
Winstrol has a significant effect on metabolism and accelerates the fat-burning process which can dramatically change body-composition. It comes in oral and injectable form. This drug has a high toxicity for the liver, especially on high doses over longer time-frames. It's a go-to drug for bodybuilders when getting ready for the stage, and I would be surprised if it's not used by movie stars when preparing for roles.
Masterone is not a very strong steroid, but it has some interesting effects, it competitively inhibits the aromatose enzyme, which is responsible for converting testosterone into estrogen. So it's very often used in combination with other steroids in order to alleviate estrogen related side effects. Only available as an injection (some would claim it has an oral form, but it's not the same thing, and I doubt it's good for the liver). Other than the aromatose inhibiting effect it also increases free testosterone which helps inhibit catabolism and it reduces water retention in the body.
Anavar is probably the safest oral, has significant fat burning properties and is unlikely to significantly suppress testosterone production at low doses (though personally I always recommend a testosterone base with any other AAS you take). Lipoprotein lipase is an enzyme that plays a crucial role in the metabolism of fats, and overexpression of this enzyme can lead to insulin resistance and obesity. Studies have shown that Anavar can decrease lipoprotein lipase activity, which may help to prevent the accumulation of fat in the body.
That covers the usual ones for this specific purpose, there are others. But some I won't even mention because the risk/reward isn't really worth considering for someone that's on a fat-loss journey and not doing bodybuilding/powerlifting.
I want to again underline that I do not recommend that you use any of these, I do so personally - But that does not make it a good idea. I'm just fed up with unrealistic transformations being posted and claimed to be done naturally - so i wanted to write a bit about it.
As an example, this is me after a very lazy period during the corona lockdown. The timespan from first to last photo is around 3-4 months. I wasn't specifically trying to lose weight, it was just a side effect from lifting and building muscle - and my diet was definitely not great. But keep in mind that it comes with a lot higher risk than glp-1s.
The messed up skin on my arms (and some on my back) is a direct effect from playing around with steroids in my early 20s without understanding how to manage and dose it properly. Could have been easily avoided, but i was not educated enough.
As for your mass and core. The best way to make the abs pop, is a lower fat %. Focus on compound movements and your core comes along naturally - And your proportions look a lot better if you make sure not to neglect your chest shoulders and back. A few sets on abs and obliques after each workout helps, but no need to overdo it. I love land mine twists and kneeling rope crunches for abs. Leg raises are great too.
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raw_oyster_eater
lemon bottle brewer
Super informative write up. Thank you for taking the time to educate us. If i ever did any steroid i would microdose.
I've always had that pouch of fat below the belly button even when i was near ideal weight.
So they say the items you mentioned above are really good with that sort of thing vs i've also been considering getting as low as i can go on peptides and just go in and have the shit lipo-ed off.
I've always had that pouch of fat below the belly button even when i was near ideal weight.
So they say the items you mentioned above are really good with that sort of thing vs i've also been considering getting as low as i can go on peptides and just go in and have the shit lipo-ed off.
Yeah, that pouch can be a very difficult to deal with.
Cutting alcohol can greatly contribute to getting rid of it.
A lot of factors in play, genetics, overall fat %, hormone balance, diet and so on - In most cases you would probably have to drop down to a fat % that isn't very sustainable to get rid of it naturally (if you are over 30 anyway) or have a diet that isn't very practical to maintain for most people.
I find it better to strive for contentment than perfection, it's easier on your sanity 🙂
raw_oyster_eater
lemon bottle brewer
at the risk of getting my ass chewed, i have some stuff on the way to try to target that belly apron/pouch. everything else is looking decent. i don't cary any fat at all on my extremities. it's just the belly.
tesamorelin will get the deep fatthat makes the stomach look bloated, and lemon bottle and neobella subq injections are supposed to destroy fat cells right under the skin on contact.
Sounds interesting, I don't know enough about it to comment - But do keep us updated on how it works!
raw_oyster_eater
lemon bottle brewer
I keep getting the criticism for trying to lose weight too fast. In the aminophylline topical cream study, they had participants do a 600 calorie a day diet and walk. I mean, if I'm going to eat 1800 cal a day why even bother with the peptides? In reality, these (S,T,R,C) are a tool to lose weight rapidly.
Greenway et al. (18)
(Trial 2) 1.2×10-5 M forskolin + 2.5×10-4 M yohimbine + 1.3×10-2 M aminophylline Five times a week for four weeks • 600 kcal/day diet
• Patients were encouraged to follow a walking program
• To increase transcutaneous absorption, the thighs were wrapped in warm 600 to 900 mOsm/L magnesium sulphate solutions for 30 minutes before each of the ointment applications.
• An occlusive plastic wrap was placed over the area to which the ointment was applied throughout the 4-week study period. All participants lost more girth on the treated thigh than the control thigh with a mean ± SEM difference of 2.03 ± 1.36 cm (p<0.05) • One of the ladies who participated in this study, which was carried out in the summer, experienced a heat rash under the occlusive plastic wrap on both legs that went away after the plastic wrap was removed.
I'm also looking for some of this cream.
Greenway et al. (18)
(Trial 2) 1.2×10-5 M forskolin + 2.5×10-4 M yohimbine + 1.3×10-2 M aminophylline Five times a week for four weeks • 600 kcal/day diet
• Patients were encouraged to follow a walking program
• To increase transcutaneous absorption, the thighs were wrapped in warm 600 to 900 mOsm/L magnesium sulphate solutions for 30 minutes before each of the ointment applications.
• An occlusive plastic wrap was placed over the area to which the ointment was applied throughout the 4-week study period. All participants lost more girth on the treated thigh than the control thigh with a mean ± SEM difference of 2.03 ± 1.36 cm (p<0.05) • One of the ladies who participated in this study, which was carried out in the summer, experienced a heat rash under the occlusive plastic wrap on both legs that went away after the plastic wrap was removed.
I'm also looking for some of this cream.
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I
Losing weight fast is perfectly fine, but it can have some complications, so it's more like a heads up than criticism
It's not criticism, we just care about your health 😉
Losing weight fast is perfectly fine, but it can have some complications, so it's more like a heads up than criticism
raw_oyster_eater
lemon bottle brewer
yea, i donno. i feel like people are going to judge me if i put some of that creme on and wrap myself in saran wrap.
First they judge you, then they get jealous and join you 😉
octoroach
New Member
very interested in this as all mine is located in my stomach too and I want it gone, figure if all else fails I'll pay for the surgery when I'm at my goal weight if I ever get there (tons to go)
zpped
Advanced Researcher
No. He's being reckless with his health. We're all losing weight. There are very serious risks to doing it too fast.
Even being cavalier about losing muscle mass... and now someone giving him the suggestion of taking steroids to compensate for it.
Yea, we don't want him to hurt himself while he is taking advice from internet strangers. There's really dangerous crap you can buy that can cause irreversible organ damage.
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I was joking about the plastic wrap specifically. I've made several direct comments to @raw_oyster_eater already so I think he knows where I stand.
Tbh, you should edit that comment so no one decides to google and buy it 😉 It's poison
While I do agree that it might seem reckless based on the information we have, that doesn't have to be true. If your macros and micros are on point and you don't have any underlying conditions you can lose weight rather quickly without causing much harm at all, it's also very individual.
Age plays a significant role, your body can take quite a beating and still be perfectly fine.
Taking steroids to preserve some muscle mass isn't necessarily a bad thing either, depending on how much and which kind steroids, it might not have any detrimental effects at all. That doesn't mean i encourage everyone to start juicing up, but it is an available tool, just like the peptides.
I wouldn't really categorize steroids very differently from peptides without a prescription - Use them correctly and it's not that bad - In many cases it's a net benefit. Abuse them, and you might experience some bad side effects. Both are developed as medicine to begin with.
At the end of the day, it's up to everyone to consider their own risk/reward assessment.
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just do that!!! 🤣
burning fat locally with topical application with minimal or no systematic exposure is the best way!
there is actually much more research on that topic, try google scholar
I got some very cheap Aminophylline tablets (veterinary grade) but didn't process them into a cream/lotion yet.
zpped
Advanced Researcher
We've been watching his story from the beginning. I promise you his macros are not on point.
As for the steroids, I just want everyone to please take notice that this opinion is coming from someone who has a financial incentive.
MrsRoper_1977
Advanced Researcher
While he may be a vendor he never pushes his product. Nothing in that post suggests he’s trying to sell. You’re just trying to stir things up.
IMO The three things that can be dangerous in rapid weight loss include :
1) gallbladder : gallstones worsening. If you are obese you probably have gallstones. Rapid weight loss can worsen this and require a cholecystectomy. You can take actigal to prevent this
2) dehydration: this can cause kidney issues. I monitior specific gravity of urine to monitor this.
3) electrolyte loss - cardiac Arrhythmias - due to rapid weight loss and loss of sodium, potassium , etc always take a supplement for this .
I am down 85 lbs since mid April . I have maintained a 1200 calorie diet. Limit added sugar, ensure 75-80 grams of protein a day and balanced ……. I have 45 to make 100 lbs but I was 352 when I started.
Steroids have many, many more issues than peptides and need to be monitor by a provider for safe use.
1) gallbladder : gallstones worsening. If you are obese you probably have gallstones. Rapid weight loss can worsen this and require a cholecystectomy. You can take actigal to prevent this
2) dehydration: this can cause kidney issues. I monitior specific gravity of urine to monitor this.
3) electrolyte loss - cardiac Arrhythmias - due to rapid weight loss and loss of sodium, potassium , etc always take a supplement for this .
I am down 85 lbs since mid April . I have maintained a 1200 calorie diet. Limit added sugar, ensure 75-80 grams of protein a day and balanced ……. I have 45 to make 100 lbs but I was 352 when I started.
Steroids have many, many more issues than peptides and need to be monitor by a provider for safe use.
It's a completely fair point to make, I do have a vendor tag after all 🙂 That said, I think any advice given by strangers online should be carefully considered whether they are from a vendor or not.
And I would hope that people do their own research and read up before injecting anything into their body.
Appreciate the kind words 😍
As for my motive, I would be lying if I said I'm not on here to sell products. But the products I'm selling here is weight loss peptides, not steroids - And the vendor section is the place to do that.
Other places on the board I just read and engage in order to learn and share knowledge/experience (Whether you agree with what I say or not is up to you). Long term I believe that's more beneficial than pushing products.
When it comes to steroids, they do have quite a bad rep because they are more often abused than used, usually without proper management - But that doesn't mean they don't have upsides if used correctly.
Steroid use is probably a lot more common than you think, it's just that everyone using them doesn't look like the hulk - quite few steroid users do actually.
Not saying abusing steroids for bigger muscles is a good thing, I'm no fan of the fitness industry, but it is what it is and some of us are happy to take that risk. Objectively that's a silly decision, but that can be said for a lot of things people do 🙂
I specifically mentioned a low dosage, testosterone since it's one of the safer options for maintaining muscle mass on a prolonged calorie deficit. I could argue that anavar and hgh (debatable) might serve the purpose too with a low chance of side effects - If the dosing isn't stupid.
Does that mean I think everyone should start taking testosterone?
Definitely not (well, depends - but that's off topic for this discussion)...
There are several potential complications, and overweight can increase those risks, antiatherogenic lipid profile, blood pressure, sleep apnea, aromatase and estrogen related side effects etc.
"Also testosterone is known to stimulate growth of prostate cancer in men diagnosed with the condition. Recent clinical trials, which provide more accurate information compared to observational studies, have provided some comfort around both the heart and prostate cancer risks. For men who clearly have testosterone deficiency, there is no apparent increased risk of heart attack or stroke or greater chance of developing a new prostate cancer from testosterone replacement therapy."
Is testosterone therapy safe? Take a breath before you take the plunge - Harvard Health
The marketing of therapy for low testosterone highlights the short-term benefits, like increased energy, mental sharpness, and improved sexual function. But serious concerns remain about potential ...
www.health.harvard.edu
Oral steroids and rapid weight-loss is probably not a great idea without doing some blood tests since both puts stress on the liver.
I'd also like to point out that there are several steroids that would serve the purpose better, but they come with a way higher risk of side effects, which is why I haven't mentioned them.
My opinion is more biased because of personal opinions, use and experience than it is from a financial incentive - There are other places to peddle steroids that are way more suited for the purpose than this forum 🙂
The reason I lumped steroids in with peptides, is that there are quite a few peptides that can also cause quite severe harm and are still in early research stages so there are many unknowns. I often get a feeling that people tend to consider all peptides as harmless as Sema and Tirz (But I could be wrong).
The way you phrased yourself here, basically underlines that point - even if that wasn't what you intended to say. I would argue that a low dose of testosterone (trt dosages) is probably a lot safer and less problematic than some, if not all GHS peptides for example.
I don't think anyone should inject anything into their body without reading up, understanding risk/reward and preferably consulting a doctor and take the proper precautions. People are different and react differently to various medicine after all.
It's also worth mentioning that some peoples red blood cell count goes wild even on lower doses of testosterone, and more or less everyone will have an increased count - Which can increase the chance of clotting, and needs to be managed - for example by donating blood.
So yes, completely unsupervised use is not recommended at all. But under proper management I am tempted to call it harmless for the majority of people.
But I'll take what you said into account and make sure that I mention monitoring whenever I mention steroids.
Testosterone in normal doses can also worsen sleep apnea and heart failure. In obese folks it is converted to estrogen by aromatase leading to other potential cardiac risk …..and breast growth. EtcIt's a completely fair point to make, I do have a vendor tag after all 🙂 That said, I think any advice given by strangers online should be carefully considered whether they are from a vendor or not.
And I would hope that people do their own research and read up before injecting anything into their body.
Appreciate the kind words 😍
As for my motive, I would be lying if I said I'm not on here to sell products. But the products I'm selling here is weight loss peptides, not steroids - And the vendor section is the place to do that.
Other places on the board I just read and engage in order to learn and share knowledge/experience (Whether you agree with what I say or not is up to you). Long term I believe that's more beneficial than pushing products.
When it comes to steroids, they do have quite a bad rep because they are more often abused than used, usually without proper management - But that doesn't mean they don't have upsides if used correctly.
Steroid use is probably a lot more common than you think, it's just that everyone using them doesn't look like the hulk - quite few steroid users do actually.
Not saying abusing steroids for bigger muscles is a good thing, I'm no fan of the fitness industry, but it is what it is and some of us are happy to take that risk. Objectively that's a silly decision, but that can be said for a lot of things people do 🙂
I specifically mentioned a low dosage, testosterone since it's one of the safer options for maintaining muscle mass on a prolonged calorie deficit. I could argue that anavar and hgh (debatable) might serve the purpose too with a low chance of side effects - If the dosing isn't stupid.
Does that mean I think everyone should start taking testosterone?
Definitely not (well, depends - but that's off topic for this discussion)...
There are several potential complications, and overweight can increase those risks, antiatherogenic lipid profile, blood pressure, sleep apnea, aromatase and estrogen related side effects etc.
"Also testosterone is known to stimulate growth of prostate cancer in men diagnosed with the condition. Recent clinical trials, which provide more accurate information compared to observational studies, have provided some comfort around both the heart and prostate cancer risks. For men who clearly have testosterone deficiency, there is no apparent increased risk of heart attack or stroke or greater chance of developing a new prostate cancer from testosterone replacement therapy."
Is testosterone therapy safe? Take a breath before you take the plunge - Harvard Health
The marketing of therapy for low testosterone highlights the short-term benefits, like increased energy, mental sharpness, and improved sexual function. But serious concerns remain about potential ...
Oral steroids and rapid weight-loss is probably not a great idea without doing some blood tests since both puts stress on the liver.
I'd also like to point out that there are several steroids that would serve the purpose better, but they come with a way higher risk of side effects, which is why I haven't mentioned them.
My opinion is more biased because of personal opinions, use and experience than it is from a financial incentive - There are other places to peddle steroids that are way more suited for the purpose than this forum 🙂
The reason I lumped steroids in with peptides, is that there are quite a few peptides that can also cause quite severe harm and are still in early research stages so there are many unknowns. I often get a feeling that people tend to consider all peptides as harmless as Sema and Tirz (But I could be wrong).
The way you phrased yourself here, basically underlines that point - even if that wasn't what you intended to say. I would argue that a low dose of testosterone (trt dosages) is probably a lot safer and less problematic than some, if not all GHS peptides for example.
I don't think anyone should inject anything into their body without reading up, understanding risk/reward and preferably consulting a doctor and take the proper precautions. People are different and react differently to various medicine after all.
It's also worth mentioning that some peoples red blood cell count goes wild even on lower doses of testosterone, and more or less everyone will have an increased count - Which can increase the chance of clotting, and needs to be managed - for example by donating blood.
So yes, completely unsupervised use is not recommended at all. But under proper management I am tempted to call it harmless for the majority of people.
But I'll take what you said into account and make sure that I mention monitoring whenever I mention steroids.
A quick disclaimer: I'm not trying to say steroids are harmless, they most definitely are not. And the risks increase significantly with increased BMI, but that does not mean that they can't serve a purpose. I simply stated that it is a way to retain muscle mass when losing weight, and it can be managed quite safely (In most cases).
There are studies that indicate positive effects treating obesity with trt. I would consider them inconclusive for now, but it does give me enough reason to question whether trt is a bad idea for an obese man with low T.
Effectiveness of testosterone therapy in obese men with low testosterone levels, for losing weight, controlling obesity complications, and preventing cardiovascular events: Protocol of a systematic review of randomized controlled trials - PMC
Supplemental Digital Content is available in the text Keywords: low testosterone, metabolic syndrome, obesity, testosterone therapy, type 2 diabetes mellitus, weight loss
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
https://endocrinenews.endocrine.org...ical disorder,common in men with hypogonadism. (Unsure about this source to be fair)
Heart failure:
Show me a conclusive study backing up your claim of heart failure. The observational studies you are most likely referring to are not solid enough, and over 10 years old.
There are also studies showing that the risk is increased by a low baseline level of testosterone and can potentially be amended by trt.
Some recent studies shows no difference in the risk of adverse cardiovascular events in men taking the therapy versus those not taking it. Arrhythmia risk may be slightly higher while on testosterone replacement though.
Basically, it's inconclusive.
Testosterone and the Heart - PMC
Testosterone (T) has a number of important effects on the cardiovascular system. In men, T levels begin to decrease after age 40, and this decrease has been associated with an increase in all-cause mortality and cardiovascular (CV) risk. Low T ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Heart health: Low testosterone associated with higher mortality risk
Researchers say low testosterone levels in men can increase mortality risk and very low levels of testosterone can increase the risk of cardiovascular-related death
www.medicalnewstoday.com
The Effect of Testosterone on Cardiovascular Disease and Cardiovascular Risk Factors in Men: A Review of Clinical and Preclinical Data - PMC
Cardiovascular disease (CVD) is the leading cause of death worldwide. The effects of testosterone, the primary male sex hormone, on cardiovascular risk have been of special interest due to the increased risk of CVD in men. Although it is well ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
How Low Testosterone Affects the Heart
Low sex drive and declining muscle mass aren't the only reasons to prevent low T.
www.houstonmethodist.org
Sleep apnea caused by testosterone is quite individual and random, and risk increases with dosage. But yes, obesity will increase this risk.
Estrogen/Aromatase:
All people turn testosterone into estrogen via aromatase, not just obese folks - An increase of aromatase is associated with the inflammatory response in adipose tissue caused by obesity.
You can manage aromatase with an AI. Though in some cases obesity, due to aromatase-mediated androgen conversion into estradiol in the peripheral adipose tissue, might impair AI inhibitory capacity.
It's worth to mention that this risk would be present with or without exogenous testosterone. But might be slightly increased by testosterone if left unmanaged, I'm unsure if there are any studies on that specifically.
Breast growth:
Adolescent gynecomastia is associated with a high incidence of obesity, dysglycemia, and family background of diabetes mellitus - PMC
Gynecomastia during adolescence is common though etiology is not clear. We studied the clinical and hormonal profile of adolescent patients with gynecomastia. Patients who had onset of breast development between age 10 and 20 years were included in ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Sleep apnea:
Having low testosterone leads to lower muscle mass and a higher BMI, both of which are risk factors for sleep apnea. However, the reverse is also true. High testosterone levels are also correlated with an increased risk of sleep apnea.
_______________________________________________________
It's not like I'm saying he should take testosterone. I just mentioned that it is a potential solution to a concern he has. If you know what you're doing (or preferably consult a specialist), it may or may not be manageable depending on your situation.
According to your knowledge I should be dead 5-10 years ago 🙂
But all my health checkups are perfectly fine - that includes long term heart rate monitoring.
I also attended a study a couple years ago where they did god knows how many tests, from cognitive tests to mri, contrast agent, bloodwork and so on and so on. Perfectly healthy, and the list of stuff I have injected in my body (some in stupid amounts when young and dumb) is long.
That does NOT mean that there are no risks, not by a long shot. And higher doses do not have any upsides except big muscles - but there are more colors than black and white.
To be fair, you are probably better off health wise by not taking ANY kind of medication you don't need. But if you look around, that isn't really what happens in practice.
If you dive down the rabbit hole, there are actually quite a few health benefits from trt (depending on situation and dosage). Most of those could probably be achieved with a clean and healthy diet and exercise though, depending slightly on age and genetics.
zpped
Advanced Researcher
No, I'm making sure people know what they are reading. I didn't say he was lying about anything, just that he has an obvious bias.
Oyster has posted all over the internet what he's doing and it's obviously wreckless. Steroids *can* be used responsibly but even then they carry a lot of tradeoffs. Oyster is already abusing peptides, suggesting he look into steroids is like offering fent to supplement someone's pot habit.
Aromatase activity is greatly increased in obesity. A large amount of the injected testosterone will convert to estrogen. Estrogen - estradiol increase causes gynecomastia directly. Also prostate enlargement... Smarter to use an aromatase inhibitor . Also most obese folks have low total testosterone. So every research study will have a low total testosterone patient if obese. A total testosterone means nothing in an obese patient . A free/ bioavailable is better. Low total testosterone in the obese doesn’t mean they need replacement. The sleep apnea risk isn’t just from lack of muscle tone but also enlargement of tongue plays a role. Testosterone increase fluid retention and that is bad for the heart…if you have cardiac problems . Many obese do and don’t know it. Just been prescribing it for 15 years or so and have seen the many, many troubles with improperA quick disclaimer: I'm not trying to say steroids are harmless, they most definitely are not. And the risks increase significantly with increased BMI, but that does not mean that they can't serve a purpose. I simply stated that it is a way to retain muscle mass when losing weight, and it can be managed quite safely (In most cases).
There are studies that indicate positive effects treating obesity with trt. I would consider them inconclusive for now, but it does give me enough reason to question whether trt is a bad idea for an obese man with low T.
Effectiveness of testosterone therapy in obese men with low testosterone levels, for losing weight, controlling obesity complications, and preventing cardiovascular events: Protocol of a systematic review of randomized controlled trials - PMC
Supplemental Digital Content is available in the text Keywords: low testosterone, metabolic syndrome, obesity, testosterone therapy, type 2 diabetes mellitus, weight loss
https://endocrinenews.endocrine.org/the-long-haul-treating-men-with-obesity-with-testosterone/#:~:text=A study presented at ENDO,mortality or major cardiovascular incidents.&text=Obesity – a complex physiological disorder,common in men with hypogonadism. (Unsure about this source to be fair)
Heart failure:
Show me a conclusive study backing up your claim of heart failure. The observational studies you are most likely referring to are not solid enough, and over 10 years old.
There are also studies showing that the risk is increased by a low baseline level of testosterone and can potentially be amended by trt.
Some recent studies shows no difference in the risk of adverse cardiovascular events in men taking the therapy versus those not taking it. Arrhythmia risk may be slightly higher while on testosterone replacement though.
Basically, it's inconclusive.
Testosterone and the Heart - PMC
Testosterone (T) has a number of important effects on the cardiovascular system. In men, T levels begin to decrease after age 40, and this decrease has been associated with an increase in all-cause mortality and cardiovascular (CV) risk. Low T ...
Heart health: Low testosterone associated with higher mortality risk
Researchers say low testosterone levels in men can increase mortality risk and very low levels of testosterone can increase the risk of cardiovascular-related death
The Effect of Testosterone on Cardiovascular Disease and Cardiovascular Risk Factors in Men: A Review of Clinical and Preclinical Data - PMC
Cardiovascular disease (CVD) is the leading cause of death worldwide. The effects of testosterone, the primary male sex hormone, on cardiovascular risk have been of special interest due to the increased risk of CVD in men. Although it is well ...
How Low Testosterone Affects the Heart
Low sex drive and declining muscle mass aren't the only reasons to prevent low T.www.houstonmethodist.org
Sleep apnea caused by testosterone is quite individual and random, and risk increases with dosage. But yes, obesity will increase this risk.
Estrogen/Aromatase:
All people turn testosterone into estrogen via aromatase, not just obese folks - An increase of aromatase is associated with the inflammatory response in adipose tissue caused by obesity.
You can manage aromatase with an AI. Though in some cases obesity, due to aromatase-mediated androgen conversion into estradiol in the peripheral adipose tissue, might impair AI inhibitory capacity.
It's worth to mention that this risk would be present with or without exogenous testosterone. But might be slightly increased by testosterone if left unmanaged, I'm unsure if there are any studies on that specifically.
Breast growth:
Again, still a risk without trt, probably marginally increased by trt, again unsure if there are studies on the topic.Adolescent gynecomastia is associated with a high incidence of obesity, dysglycemia, and family background of diabetes mellitus - PMC
Gynecomastia during adolescence is common though etiology is not clear. We studied the clinical and hormonal profile of adolescent patients with gynecomastia. Patients who had onset of breast development between age 10 and 20 years were included in ...
Sleep apnea:
Having low testosterone leads to lower muscle mass and a higher BMI, both of which are risk factors for sleep apnea. However, the reverse is also true. High testosterone levels are also correlated with an increased risk of sleep apnea.
_______________________________________________________
It's not like I'm saying he should take testosterone. I just mentioned that it is a potential solution to a concern he has. If you know what you're doing (or preferably consult a specialist), it may or may not be manageable depending on your situation.
According to your knowledge I should be dead 5-10 years ago 🙂
But all my health checkups are perfectly fine - that includes long term heart rate monitoring.
I also attended a study a couple years ago where they did god knows how many tests, from cognitive tests to mri, contrast agent, bloodwork and so on and so on. Perfectly healthy, and the list of stuff I have injected in my body (some in stupid amounts when young and dumb) is long.
That does NOT mean that there are no risks, not by a long shot. And higher doses do not have any upsides except big muscles - but there are more colors than black and white.
To be fair, you are probably better off health wise by not taking ANY kind of medication you don't need. But if you look around, that isn't really what happens in practice.
If you dive down the rabbit hole, there are actually quite a few health benefits from trt (depending on situation and dosage). Most of those could probably be achieved with a clean and healthy diet and exercise though, depending slightly on age and genetics.
I can't argue when it's phrased like that 🙂 Would like the post twice if I could.
raw_oyster_eater
lemon bottle brewer
maybe. not too bad.
peptide log:
6/27 0.25 script zepbound
7/4 0.25 script zepbound
7/11 0.25 nuscience triz
7/21 1.0 peptide sciences reta
7/24 1.0 peptide sciences reta
7/26 2.0 peptide sciences reta
7/29 5.0 nuscience triz
8/1 2.0 peptide science reta
8/5 5.0 nuscience triz
8/7 1.0 acpeptides reta
8/8 3.0 acpeptides reta
8/15 2.0 acpeptides reta
8/17 2.0 acpeptides reta
8/20 0.5 amopure reta
8/21 1.0 amopure reta
8/22 1.0 amopure reta
8/23 0.10 amopure cagri
8/26 0.10 amopure cagri
8/28 0.20 amopure cagri
8/29 0.20 amopure cagri
9/1 0.25 amopure cagri
9/3 4.4 acpeptides reta
zpped
Advanced Researcher
Not necessarily in what you're taking but in how you're treating it. (although just completely jumping way ahead in dosing schedules and mixing glp1s isn't great) But you're using them to enable an abysmal diet and blow off everyone who told you it was bad idea. Not focusing on muscle retention isn't unique to you however. A lot of people aren't taking that serious enough.
