I'm going to shoot for losing 100 pounds in 6 months

Pr0digalSun said:
Hey I just wanted to jump in here (late) and say a couple things:
Been on TRT for almost 20 years, added HCG this last year for testicular atrophy. It works really well. I take 100mg/1500IU per week of TestC/HCG

I started doing subQ shots this year and splitting my weekly dose into EOD shots, bc it’s easier for me to remember than 2x per week. I use a 1cc luerLock syringe with a 25ga needle to draw and then switch it to a 31G to inject. I rotate injection sites typically up and down my thighs or delts bc it’s completely painless and doesn’t even bleed with a 31g needle

There’s no reason to inject every 8 hours. Test usually takes an about weeks before you notice. HCG works faster, not being in a slow release oil like test. SubQ shots hurt way less than IM and cause less scarring. Also, because the shot is injected into subcutaneous fat, it is more slowly absorbed which reduces the amount of aromatase that occurs, which is the process where it turns into DHT and estrogen.

DHT is way more anabolic than test, but does react with the prostate and the hair cells on your head if you have the genes for pattern baldness. Dutastwride or Finasteride will reduce DHT but can reduce your sex drive and reduce the anabolic effects of T.

High Estrogen levels caused by excess Test have benefits in men, as long as the ratio of free test to estrogen is 10:1. There’s no need to start on an aromatase inhibitor (like arimidex/anastrazole) unless you experience side effects from the E2 (moodiness, loss of libido, sensitive nipples), or if your ratio is off

It’s very important to get labs and know your levels if you want the benefits of test. Also you can’t just stop and start taking testosterone: just one shot of 50mg of T will make your testicles stop producing natural testosterone for about a month, but the 50mg isn’t enough to replace the amount that would be produced: so in other words doing one shot of T here and there will cause your level to be lower than never doing any
Click to expand...
I'm sorry, but this is too flawed for me to not comment - I don't mean to be a dick, but this simply isn't factual at all.

Sure, you have been on trt for 20 years, and have data of ONE test subject. So considering that as experience is a bit of a fallacy.

subQ injections leading to less aromatization due to slower absorption is an oversimplification.
And there are plenty of factors that are a lot more significant. Injecting daily for practical reasons is perfectly fine, but it wouldn't make a significant difference compared to every 3 days - unless it's a short ester - but judging from your usual 2x week I'm guessing it's E or C, maybe sust even though it's not commonly used for trt since it's not all that practical.

One injection of 50mg will NOT stop your natural production for a month as you suggest. Nor will it lower your baseline levels (typically). Though that one injection would be completely pointless.

The optimal injection frequency depends on both the individual and on the ester. But at a trt dosage the difference in spikes will be negligible for most individuals that are suitable for trt.

There is no universally agreed upon ideal ratio of testosterone : estrogen, though 10:1 is often used as a standard- It's very individual. And can change significantly based on the dosage administered (even if the ratio can seem manageable, total estrogen levels are a factor), the reason for taking testosterone will also determine what levels you might want to tolerate (non medicinal use).

When it comes to AIs, dutasteride, and finasteride:
It's best to leave it to the professionals. The relationship between testosterone, estrogen (aromatase), and DHT (5-alpha reduction) is quite complicated and also involves intricate feedback mechanisms that regulate hormone levels. Key organs such as the testes, adrenal glands, and hypothalamus play crucial roles in this interplay, along with other hormones like luteinizing hormone (LH), follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH), and gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH). Changes in testosterone levels can affect estrogen production through aromatization, while elevated DHT influences feedback on the hypothalamic-pituitary-gonadal axis, ultimately dictating how these hormones interact.

But I mean, sure - Most bodybuilders just much some AIs when their titties start feeling sensitive :)

Edit: spelling
 
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Yeah it’s just my experience, backed up with tons of research and using good doctors, and a BS in chem with focus on pharmacology.

What I said are guidelines, for someone using test without a dr or without labs which is counterproductive and a bad idea. I was responding to him saying his that he was injecting test c every 8 hours, and to the statement that he didn’t feel it after one shot. And that he’s determining his dosage by how he feels, which is not a good way to use testosterone. And also to somebody else’s statement that you needed to use fat needles for test c injections which is wrong. And to the statement someone else made that he should start AI’s when he starts test, which is a myth.

And absolutely I’m not saying to do any of this without a Dr (which is what he’s doing). My TRT is prescribed by an endocrinology focused urologist at NYU.

Also to subQ does result in lower E2. Here’s two studies:


Testosterone Therapy With Subcutaneous Injections: A Safe, Practical, and Reasonable Option - PMC

Injections with intramuscular (IM) testosterone esters have been available for almost 8 decades and not only result in predictable serum testosterone levels but are also the most inexpensive modality. However, they are difficult to self-administer ...
pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

And lastly, this article states that just 50mg drastically reduces spermatozoa and endogenous testosterone production. 50mg reduces FSH and LH production by the pituitary by over 50%. So doing a single shot of testosterone is pointless and counterproductive

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Effects of chronic testosterone administration in normal men: safety and efficacy of high dosage testosterone and parallel dose-dependent suppression of luteinizing hormone, follicle-stimulating hormone, and sperm production - PubMed

In normal men, chronic testosterone (T) administration results in negative feedback suppression of gonadotropin and sperm production. However, azoospermia is achieved in only 50-70% of men treated with high dosages of T. Furthermore, the relative sensitivity of LH and FSH secretion to chronic...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

This study says as little as 20mg exogenous testosterone will cause a regression of pituitary function of up to 33%

Exogenous testosterone: a preventable cause of male infertility - PMC

Testosterone replacement therapy inhibits spermatogenesis, representing a problem for hypogonadal men of reproductive age. A literature review of PubMed from 1990-2013. Semen analysis and pregnancy outcomes, time to recovery of spermatogenesis, ...
pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

In fact people who want to get test prescribed will sometimes do a 100mg shot, wait 3 weeks to do their labs and then say “see Dr I don’t have any T”
 
Bacchus said:
I'm sorry, but this is too flawed for me to not comment - I don't mean to be a dick, but this simply isn't factual at all.

Sure, you have been on trt for 20 years, and have data of ONE test subject. So considering that as experience is a bit of a fallacy.

subQ injections leading to less aromatization due to slower absorption is an oversimplification.
And there are plenty of factors that are a lot more significant. Injecting daily for practical reasons is perfectly fine, but it wouldn't make a significant difference compared to every 3 days - unless it's a short ester - but judging from your usual 2x week I'm guessing it's E or C, maybe sust even though it's not commonly used for trt since it's not all that practical.

One injection of 50mg will NOT stop your natural production for a month as you suggest. Nor will it lower your baseline levels (typically). Though that one injection would be completely pointless.

The optimal injection frequency depends on both the individual and on the ester. But at a trt dosage the difference in spikes will be negligible for most individuals that are suitable for trt.

There is no universally agreed upon ideal ratio of testosterone : estrogen, though 10:1 is often used as a standard- It's very individual. And can change significantly based on the dosage administered (even if the ratio can seem manageable, total estrogen levels are a factor), the reason for taking testosterone will also determine what levels you might want to tolerate (non medicinal use).

When it comes to AIs, dutasteride, and finasteride:
It's best to leave it to the professionals. The relationship between testosterone, estrogen (aromatase), and DHT (5-alpha reduction) is quite complicated and also involves intricate feedback mechanisms that regulate hormone levels. Key organs such as the testes, adrenal glands, and hypothalamus play crucial roles in this interplay, along with other hormones like luteinizing hormone (LH), follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH), and gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH). Changes in testosterone levels can affect estrogen production through aromatization, while elevated DHT influences feedback on the hypothalamic-pituitary-gonadal axis, ultimately dictating how these hormones interact.

But I mean, sure - Most bodybuilders just much some AIs when their titties start feeling sensitive :)

Edit: spelling
Click to expand...
I think we are mostly agreeing, my point was to try and say using T without a doc or labs is a bad idea if he values his sexual health, and if his overall goals are healthy overall.

That may not have been OP’s goals he may not care about his sexual health at all but tbh that’s my main reason for using test, as replacement.

But TRT and cycling anabolics are two very different protocols with very different risks and rewards
 
Pr0digalSun said:
I think we are mostly agreeing, my point was to try and say using T without a doc or labs is a bad idea if he values his sexual health, and if his overall goals are healthy overall.

That may not have been OP’s goals he may not care about his sexual health at all but tbh that’s my main reason for using test, as replacement.

But TRT and cycling anabolics are two very different protocols with very different risks and rewards
Click to expand...
To be fair, I think i agree that we mostly agree when I look it over.

I think I just got hung up in a couple minor details and answered in a way that was uncalled for :)

The main one probably being about shutdown - Since it's unlikely to flat out stop production.
The sentiment that it's pointless is entirely accurate though.
--- My issue with the statement, is that when phrased like that it becomes one of those typical "anti-drug" arguments that hold no water and make young people more likely to try because the information source saying it's super bad is not being objectively honest.
- Which honestly is completely unrelated to your point and a personal thing for me.

Other than that, my other comments are more or less technicalities because i got annoyed by the way the shut down statement was phrased and decided to pick on details.

Been a long day...
________________________________________________________________________________________________
As for Oyster, he loves attention and he will keep being reckless no matter what you say (But honestly, it's not as reckless at it might seem in my opinion - he does like the attention part).

I did say that he could chomp down a couple AIs when he said he was experiencing quite bad bloating - As he already said he was not going to take another injection, I don't consider that something that would cause significant harm, but might reduce the potential bloating if he already feels bad a couple days after injecting test C.

But that might be a slightly silly way of thinking since it's based of my own AI use being largely based off feeling (Which sounds very bad, but it actually works quite well after extensive experience - But i do test and don't rely blindly on it).

The fat needles are debatable though. Bayer has insanely thick oil for example, pushing that through a 31g is not easy - if it's a 3ml or larger syringe you can forget about it :) Though, it might be easier to push it out subQ than IM - I never tried that.

The goal for oyster as far as I understand having followed the guy for some time - Is to conserve muscle, build some maybe and lose fat. So I'd argue that any dose under 300mg a week would be insufficient (depending on how impatient you are obviously).
__________________________________

To sum it up:
I do apologize for being a hothead for no reason, a good reminder to ask my better half if my mood is stable lately, since I'm doing a short tren cycle (low dose, but the stuff is rather nasty).

Let's just agree that playing around with steroids isn't something you should do without extensive knowledge, doing blood panels and preferably working with an endocrinologist
 
Bacchus said:
To be fair, I think i agree that we mostly agree when I look it over.

I think I just got hung up in a couple minor details and answered in a way that was uncalled for :)

The main one probably being about shutdown - Since it's unlikely to flat out stop production.
The sentiment that it's pointless is entirely accurate though.
--- My issue with the statement, is that when phrased like that it becomes one of those typical "anti-drug" arguments that hold no water and make young people more likely to try because the information source saying it's super bad is not being objectively honest.
- Which honestly is completely unrelated to your point and a personal thing for me.

Other than that, my other comments are more or less technicalities because i got annoyed by the way the shut down statement was phrased and decided to pick on details.

Been a long day...
________________________________________________________________________________________________
As for Oyster, he loves attention and he will keep being reckless no matter what you say (But honestly, it's not as reckless at it might seem in my opinion - he does like the attention part).

I did say that he could chomp down a couple AIs when he said he was experiencing quite bad bloating - As he already said he was not going to take another injection, I don't consider that something that would cause significant harm, but might reduce the potential bloating if he already feels bad a couple days after injecting test C.

But that might be a slightly silly way of thinking since it's based of my own AI use being largely based off feeling (Which sounds very bad, but it actually works quite well after extensive experience - But i do test and don't rely blindly on it).

The fat needles are debatable though. Bayer has insanely thick oil for example, pushing that through a 31g is not easy - if it's a 3ml or larger syringe you can forget about it :) Though, it might be easier to push it out subQ than IM - I never tried that.

The goal for oyster as far as I understand having followed the guy for some time - Is to conserve muscle, build some maybe and lose fat. So I'd argue that any dose under 300mg a week would be insufficient (depending on how impatient you are obviously).
__________________________________

To sum it up:
I do apologize for being a hothead for no reason, a good reminder to ask my better half if my mood is stable lately, since I'm doing a short tren cycle (low dose, but the stuff is rather nasty).

Let's just agree that playing around with steroids isn't something you should do without extensive knowledge, doing blood panels and preferably working with an endocrinologist
Click to expand...
Hehe omg I’ve done a tren cycle before I know what u mean. Trent-winny-testc doing 750 a wk t, I got down to 9% BF tho

I’m also sorry I wasn’t trying to be know-it-all-y, I just feel like taking a single big shot of Test is a waste of T and will make u feel good n horny for a week but has zero other lasting benefits

I wish I had known more about managing my E and using HCG a long time ago.

I did the lab trick where I did some test waited a few weeks, did labs, and finally got a script for 200mg test c a week and used it like that for about 7 yrs without doing labs without managing my e2 or LH/FSH and it kind of fucked me up. I swear my left nut is permanently hiding behind his bigger brother or hiding at times when he should be out hanging enjoying himself

I finally went to a good urologist which I recommend any man in ur 40’s do. And get ur junk looked at and tell them everything
 
Pr0digalSun said:
Hehe omg I’ve done a tren cycle before I know what u mean. Trent-winny-testc doing 750 a wk t, I got down to 9% BF tho

I’m also sorry I wasn’t trying to be know-it-all-y, I just feel like taking a single big shot of Test is a waste of T and will make u feel good n horny for a week but has zero other lasting benefits

I wish I had known more about managing my E and using HCG a long time ago.

I did the lab trick where I did some test waited a few weeks, did labs, and finally got a script for 200mg test c a week and used it like that for about 7 yrs without doing labs without managing my e2 or LH/FSH and it kind of fucked me up. I swear my left nut is permanently hiding behind his bigger brother or hiding at times when he should be out hanging enjoying himself

I finally went to a good urologist which I recommend any man in ur 40’s do. And get ur junk looked at and tell them everything
Click to expand...
Preach, I had to spend a silly sum on laser treatments to fix my back that looked like it had been double barreled by a shotgun (high dose Tren E and trying to fix acne with sunburns) - Stupidity of youth.

I would bitch slap my 15 year younger self back to the stone age for the level of stupidity if I could :)
 
Yeah and I agree
Bacchus said:
To be fair, I think i agree that we mostly agree when I look it over.

I think I just got hung up in a couple minor details and answered in a way that was uncalled for :)

The main one probably being about shutdown - Since it's unlikely to flat out stop production.
The sentiment that it's pointless is entirely accurate though.
--- My issue with the statement, is that when phrased like that it becomes one of those typical "anti-drug" arguments that hold no water and make young people more likely to try because the information source saying it's super bad is not being objectively honest.
- Which honestly is completely unrelated to your point and a personal thing for me.

Other than that, my other comments are more or less technicalities because i got annoyed by the way the shut down statement was phrased and decided to pick on details.

Been a long day...
________________________________________________________________________________________________
As for Oyster, he loves attention and he will keep being reckless no matter what you say (But honestly, it's not as reckless at it might seem in my opinion - he does like the attention part).

I did say that he could chomp down a couple AIs when he said he was experiencing quite bad bloating - As he already said he was not going to take another injection, I don't consider that something that would cause significant harm, but might reduce the potential bloating if he already feels bad a couple days after injecting test C.

But that might be a slightly silly way of thinking since it's based of my own AI use being largely based off feeling (Which sounds very bad, but it actually works quite well after extensive experience - But i do test and don't rely blindly on it).

The fat needles are debatable though. Bayer has insanely thick oil for example, pushing that through a 31g is not easy - if it's a 3ml or larger syringe you can forget about it :) Though, it might be easier to push it out subQ than IM - I never tried that.

The goal for oyster as far as I understand having followed the guy for some time - Is to conserve muscle, build some maybe and lose fat. So I'd argue that any dose under 300mg a week would be insufficient (depending on how impatient you are obviously).
__________________________________

To sum it up:
I do apologize for being a hothead for no reason, a good reminder to ask my better half if my mood is stable lately, since I'm doing a short tren cycle (low dose, but the stuff is rather nasty).

Let's just agree that playing around with steroids isn't something you should do without extensive knowledge, doing blood panels and preferably working with an endocrinologist
Click to expand...
also I was wrong I use 30g, and yeah its almost impossible to push with a 3cc syringe. And it has to be a luer lock 1cc or that shit will pop right off. If you’re doing a cycle that wouldn’t work, but I’m just doing TRT so I just do .28ml test c EOD. Which is 200/wk. since I started doing subQ vs once a week IM shots, and added the hcg, my levels went way higher. Probably the hcg. If you’re doing cycle volumes of oils it’s got be IM or it would take forever to push. I think when I did test c with tren e I used 5cc syringes and 22g for a big ole IM

You know what’s crazy: is that now in NY state, HCG is a schedule II controlled substance, the same as cocaine, fentanyl, oxycodone and meth.

I have to get it from a specialty endocrinology pharmacy associated with NYU Hospital

I thought oyster was just doing it once and didn’t realize it was

IMG_7458.jpeg
 
Pr0digalSun said:
Yeah and I agree

also I was wrong I use 30g, and yeah its almost impossible to push with a 3cc syringe. And it has to be a luer lock 1cc or that shit will pop right off. If you’re doing a cycle that wouldn’t work, but I’m just doing TRT so I just do .28ml test c EOD. Which is 200/wk. since I started doing subQ vs once a week IM shots, and added the hcg, my levels went way higher. Probably the hcg. If you’re doing cycle volumes of oils it’s got be IM or it would take forever to push. I think when I did test c with tren e I used 5cc syringes and 22g for a big ole IM

You know what’s crazy: is that now in NY state, HCG is a schedule II controlled substance, the same as cocaine, fentanyl, oxycodone and meth.

I have to get it from a specialty endocrinology pharmacy associated with NYU Hospital

I thought oyster was just doing it once and didn’t realize it was

View attachment 3242
Click to expand...
Oh man you're in for a treat if you read up on Oyster, he should have his own reality show ;)

Yeeeah, those classifications... I can not say I agree - at all :D
 
Sheldor said:
you eat more or still just the 800kcal?
Click to expand...
i was definitely 1200 or less most of this month. TRT stuff makes you retain water like a sponge. I did one week of it ( a significant overdose) then stopped and it's taken a long time to reverse.

so don't do that if you're trying to lose weight.

TRT is becoming quite popular in the Boston area. Lots of spas popping up and ads all over the radio.
 
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raw_oyster_eater said:
i was definitely 1200 or less most of this month. TRT stuff makes you retain water like a sponge. I did one week of it ( a significant overdose) then stopped and it's taken a long time to reverse.

so don't do that if you're trying to lose weight.
Click to expand...
oyster its just a water, no need to be afraid of that, it will go away after 2-3 weeks
 
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