For those of you who were referred here via a redditor....

BenevolentMrTang said:
I completely agree with this post. This forum is not welcoming to newcomers. I've participated in various forums (and moderated several) on a wide range of topics since Internet forums were established. This one has some good info, but it's, without question, the least welcoming forum I have experienced, going all the way back to the 90s. Buncha jackanapes here (along with some decent people).
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That's not completely true, Master Tang.

Just last week, a newcomer came in and said, "hi, I'm from Seattle and excited to learn from all of you" so I immediately called them a shill, and the post devolved into them threatening to saw my head off. Typical newcomer friendly forum behavior if you ask me.
 
Raptor said:
The difference between Reddit and this forum, in my experience, goes beyond just having humans behind the keyboards on both platforms. It’s about the culture and how people choose to engage.

If I can be completely honest, I typically prefer to observe and learn here rather than post. For a long time, this forum felt like a reliable, welcoming place where I could find information and support. However, that perception shifted when I attempted to participate and was met with hostility—not for anything inflammatory, but simply for expressing support for someone another member strongly opposes.

Right or wrong, the way I was treated speaks volumes about those who responded, especially given the way they often present themselves as open and helpful. It completely validated my initial hesitation to engage here. It’s disappointing how quickly a space you admire and a group you respect can lose their value when hostility replaces constructive dialogue.

So, to answer the question: the key difference is the willingness to truly help and guide others. And sadly, that seems to have been lost here.
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To be fair, your first post wasn't a question. You stepped in to advocate for an extremely controversial vendor that is known for shilling with alternate accounts.
 
brentm said:
I was 30 day banned on a subreddit for "medical advice". I'm not so sure it's the culture and how people choose to engage. I think it might be more of just the population numbers. This forum can be somewhat "cliquey" and small world. But Reddit can just be cruel given the population numbers.

GLPF were quite vocally opposed with the (airquotes) "spreadsheet" and how bad and dangerous it is to the newcomer. With the alternative that every newbie "where should I buy" posts should snowball into several pages of nonsense with bits of information contained like "DYOR", "READ" and other. It almost feels a bit more like a sport. Let's tell the noob to DYOR! Get "street cred" with your "Fight Clubbers". And dang I just broke the first rule!

As for the cliquey-ness... it's probably largely dependent when these people decided to "join the gray side". Another forum has already popped up that is much more newcomer friendly. It's still being developed but at the risk of sounding cliquey, I've been asked not to publicly post links to it for the moment. However I can respond via DM if anyone is interested in getting their "noob" on. Or just want the straight dirt in a spreadsheet.

There is no shortage of ways to get help, and this forum isn't the only game in town. https://Data Mining Site can get you into several dozen GLP1 discords. There's also Telegram.

Once I joined Data Mining Site and then found invites to their native Discords, the forums have become less and less useful. Now I just come here to shit post and have a little fun.

"Everyone is a first time, a once" -Edna, Reform School Girls.
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So a new forum is asking you not to talk about fight club publicly, huh? Well don’t that beat all.

Everyone didn’t start at the same level bc of varied backgrounds, and some folks just plain catch onto things faster.

I suggested to someone that helps run the tirzhelp discord that maybe a “what to expect while expecting” guide would be a good idea bc I was watching their folks freak the fuck out about wait times, communication, etc. They told me to kick fucking rocks. I let them know I’d seen at least 4 server owners lose their shit in long posts, not just bc of the large influx of folks, but bc of the behavior. No one advised the newer members to sit back, relax, observe a server’s atmosphere, and then join in. Again, told to fuck right off.

I had been directing people obviously drowning to that server, tg, whatever, now I just scroll right on by.
 
directing newbies to Data Mining Site for help is absurd. It's bedlam there, you're in the vendors house. The only thing they want to help with is how to spend your money. Its fine for keeping up with sales or talking to the vendors when you need to.
 
Is it really that out of line to instruct newcomers that this isn’t a joke, they need to take responsibility for their own education because it involves personal risk assessment about decisions and consequences that only effect them, potentially quite seriously? All in a landscape full of cash grabbing opportunists? It’s not a “friendly” thing to say but the reality is that they’re wandering into a lion’s den with their wallet in hand and health on the line.

It is irresponsible not to take this approach in my opinion. You can’t spoon feed them whoever your preferred vendor is and then say “but I’m not responsible if you experience bad outcomes!”
 
zpped said:
directing newbies to Data Mining Site for help is absurd. It's bedlam there, you're in the vendors house. The only thing they want to help with is how to spend your money. Its fine for keeping up with sales or talking to the vendors when you need to.
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Vendors mostly yes... but there's plenty of general chit chat.

No one really has a solution to the "noob" problem. I say let them drink from a firehose.

exploitedworkerbee said:
Is it really that out of line to instruct newcomers that this isn’t a joke, they need to take responsibility for their own education because it involves personal risk assessment about decisions and consequences that only effect them, potentially quite seriously? All in a landscape full of cash grabbing opportunists? It’s not a “friendly” thing to say but the reality is that they’re wandering into a lion’s den with their wallet in hand and health on the line.
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I don't think it's out of line to instruct newcomers that they're taking a big step at all.

But then again... there should be plenty of warning signs along the way. "Not for human use". Paying with irreversible methods.

exploitedworkerbee said:
It is irresponsible not to take this approach in my opinion. You can’t spoon feed them whoever your preferred vendor is and then say “but I’m not responsible if you experience bad outcomes!”
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Saying...
any "list" of suppliers/vendors is entirely the work of the author(s) and not this forum and will likely be flawed, contain subjective and/or unsubstantiated opinions, and in some cases may be incentivized by payment
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I don't see any problem with being factual to newcomers.... "I've used these vendors recently and they delivered". Not really a recommendation so much as it is just stating the facts of who you've transacted with and had some success.

But at the end of the day... the onus is on the noob. No one else should be responsible for anyone else's decisions in life or health. Pushing the blame onto someone else for a bad recommendation or a vendor that's a scammer on the forum is just shirking responsibility for ones own actions.

No one is forcing anyone's hand here.
 
fetefille said:
So a new forum is asking you not to talk about fight club publicly, huh? Well don’t that beat all.

Everyone didn’t start at the same level bc of varied backgrounds, and some folks just plain catch onto things faster.

I suggested to someone that helps run the tirzhelp discord that maybe a “what to expect while expecting” guide would be a good idea bc I was watching their folks freak the fuck out about wait times, communication, etc. They told me to kick fucking rocks. I let them know I’d seen at least 4 server owners lose their shit in long posts, not just bc of the large influx of folks, but bc of the behavior. No one advised the newer members to sit back, relax, observe a server’s atmosphere, and then join in. Again, told to fuck right off.

I had been directing people obviously drowning to that server, tg, whatever, now I just scroll right on by.
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Oof! I also have been directing the babiest of birds to the TirzHelp TG. Even though I was initially against a place like that, it does seem like some people really, truly need to be in the kiddie pool for a bit before they can swim with the big kids. Are you saying that, even in that environment, people still aren't getting the basics that it claims to provide?

TG doesn't seem like a great format to learn in because of how fast it moves. There must be like the same questions asked 15x/day because it gets asked, answered, then 50000 chats happens and then someone new comes in and asks the same thing because the information isn't in a searchable format. I much prefer the forum/topic/discussion environment.

Who told you to fuck off? I'd be very surprised if it was Stairmaster or Delulu as I haven't seen either of them be an actual asshole in public. I don't really know any of their other mods/admins.
 
MiniatureSnail said:
Oof! I also have been directing the babiest of birds to the TirzHelp TG. Even though I was initially against a place like that, it does seem like some people really, truly need to be in the kiddie pool for a bit before they can swim with the big kids. Are you saying that, even in that environment, people still aren't getting the basics that it claims to provide?

TG doesn't seem like a great format to learn in because of how fast it moves. There must be like the same questions asked 15x/day because it gets asked, answered, then 50000 chats happens and then someone new comes in and asks the same thing because the information isn't in a searchable format. I much prefer the forum/topic/discussion environment.

Who told you to fuck off? I'd be very surprised if it was Stairmaster or Delulu as I haven't seen either of them be an actual asshole in public. I don't really know any of their other mods/admins.
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For the record I did not tell her to fuck off at all.
My response was extremely cordial considering the 10 paragraphs of unsolicited criticism she sent me out of the blue at 6am. If anyone cares about this, dm me somewhere else and I’ll send you screenshots of the full convo - it’s mostly just boring and weird 😂

To any newbies reading, if you haven’t found us already, come join us on Telegram if you’re looking for an open, safe space to learn about the gray market without all this toxic pretentiousness. We have a lot more fun and you might even learn some stuff 😁

https://t.me/+jMcrqBGWRiJlZTEx
 
MiniatureSnail said:
Oof! I also have been directing the babiest of birds to the TirzHelp TG. Even though I was initially against a place like that, it does seem like some people really, truly need to be in the kiddie pool for a bit before they can swim with the big kids. Are you saying that, even in that environment, people still aren't getting the basics that it claims to provide?

TG doesn't seem like a great format to learn in because of how fast it moves. There must be like the same questions asked 15x/day because it gets asked, answered, then 50000 chats happens and then someone new comes in and asks the same thing because the information isn't in a searchable format. I much prefer the forum/topic/discussion environment.

Who told you to fuck off? I'd be very surprised if it was Stairmaster or Delulu as I haven't seen either of them be an actual asshole in public. I don't really know any of their other mods/admins.
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I tried to convince SM it was a bad idea to make a seperate location that is disconnected from the people that have historical context. It's going to end badly.
 
zpped said:
I tried to convince SM it was a bad idea to make a seperate location that is disconnected from the people that have historical context. It's going to end badly.
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I mean, after some reflection, I don't think the idea of a "shallow end" is necessarily bad, I just think TG sucks for anything other than casual chat or announcements where the channel is closed for further discussion. How am I supposed to find any meaningful information when I come back after 4+ hours and there are 1000+ messages just in one channel!? I'm not looking for a needle in that haystack.
 
MiniatureSnail said:
I mean, after some reflection, I don't think the idea of a "shallow end" is necessarily bad, I just think TG sucks for anything other than casual chat or announcements where the channel is closed for further discussion. How am I supposed to find any meaningful information when I come back after 4+ hours and there are 1000+ messages just in one channel!? I'm not looking for a needle in that haystack.
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This is the shallow end though. And it works because the important information from the deep end gets filtered up. agreed that tg is particularly bad for it as well because of the lack of context and history.

So they have two problems, not having strong connections to the deep end and an endless stream of chatter that means what you learn is entirely dependent on who's currently hanging out at any given moment.
 
delululemonade said:
For the record I did not tell her to fuck off at all.
My response was extremely cordial considering the 10 paragraphs of unsolicited criticism she sent me out of the blue at 6am. If anyone cares about this, dm me somewhere else and I’ll send you screenshots of the full convo - it’s mostly just boring and weird 😂

To any newbies reading, if you haven’t found us already, come join us on Telegram if you’re looking for an open, safe space to learn about the gray market without all this toxic pretentiousness. We have a lot more fun and you might even learn some stuff 😁

https://t.me/+jMcrqBGWRiJlZTEx
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Everyone has an opinion and something something.

I'm personally not interested in any dirty laundry. It's nice that your subreddit is directing traffic to a place where a lot of these people can receive the level of attention they might need if they want to continue their weight loss/life improvement journey.

Somehow they end up on here, and boy, what a drag it is for this forum to have to have 7 pages of posts telling people how they ought to be doing something different for the newcomer instead of actually doing it. Or people threatening to come up with their own preferred vendor list, or recon tutorial, but not actually producing anything.

Shine on!
 
brentm said:
Everyone has an opinion and something something.

I'm personally not interested in any dirty laundry. It's nice that your subreddit is directing traffic to a place where a lot of these people can receive the level of attention they might need if they want to continue their weight loss/life improvement journey.

Somehow they end up on here, and boy, what a drag it is for this forum to have to have 7 pages of posts telling people how they ought to be doing something different for the newcomer instead of actually doing it. Or people threatening to come up with their own preferred vendor list, or recon tutorial, but not actually producing anything.

Shine on!
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it must do something for you since you spend so much time here.
 
MiniatureSnail said:
I mean, after some reflection, I don't think the idea of a "shallow end" is necessarily bad, I just think TG sucks for anything other than casual chat or announcements where the channel is closed for further discussion. How am I supposed to find any meaningful information when I come back after 4+ hours and there are 1000+ messages just in one channel!? I'm not looking for a needle in that haystack.
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The actual tirzepatidehelp Telegram site is good. I agree it would be better if there was a Reddit-type group for tirzepatidehelp that didn’t have a rule prohibiting the naming of sources. But there isn’t. The GLP1 forum is set up reasonably well but has members that tend to be anti-newbie. People in the tirzhelp Telegram site are okay with newbies or else they wouldn’t belong to the channel. (I think channel is the right term, but I’m not Telegram savvy enough to know for sure.).
 
keangkong said:
The actual tirzepatidehelp Telegram site is good. I agree it would be better if there was a Reddit-type group for tirzepatidehelp that didn’t have a rule prohibiting the naming of sources. But there isn’t. The GLP1 forum is set up reasonably well but has members that tend to be anti-newbie. People in the tirzhelp Telegram site are okay with newbies or else they wouldn’t belong to the channel. (I think channel is the right term, but I’m not Telegram savvy enough to know for sure.).
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Everyone keeps saying it is anti-newbie which is not true at all. If a newbie posts:

“hi! I am new here, about to place my first order. I’ve done some reading and am stuck between Vendor X and Vendor Y for these reasons: yada yada yada. Does anyone have some anecdotal accounts that can speak to those concerns? Ideally if you’ve ordered from both that would be super helpful. Thanks very much, I appreciate you guys!”

… we would surely be welcoming and helpful. When they post “who do I buy from” it demonstrates that they have not done the bare minimum, which reads as lazy entitlement. The problem isn’t that someone is new, it is that it is both dangerous for them and disrespectful to all of us to try to outsource their due diligence to internet strangers.

If you’re new, but not that type of person, you probably won’t have to post a question anyway, since everything you need to know is all ready at your fingertips if you have a modicum of initiative. The lazy ones self-select by making those posts which gives the impression that we are anti-newbie.
 
exploitedworkerbee said:
Everyone keeps saying it is anti-newbie which is not true at all. If a newbie posts:

“hi! I am new here, about to place my first order. I’ve done some reading and am stuck between Vendor X and Vendor Y for these reasons: yada yada yada. Does anyone have some anecdotal accounts that can speak to those concerns? Ideally if you’ve ordered from both that would be super helpful. Thanks very much, I appreciate you guys!”

… we would surely be welcoming and helpful. When they post “who do I buy from” it demonstrates that they have not done the bare minimum, which reads as lazy entitlement. The problem isn’t that someone is new, it is that it is both dangerous for them and disrespectful to all of us to try to outsource their due diligence to internet strangers.

If you’re new, but not that type of person, you probably won’t have to post a question anyway, since everything you need to know is all ready at your fingertips if you have a modicum of initiative. The lazy ones self-select by making those posts which gives the impression that we are anti-newbie.
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Nah, there was a whole thread of people complaining about the anticipation of the influx of new accounts when the compound Tirz rugpull occurred.

I mean, you're going to get your fair share of newcomers that are the "lazy ones".

That's what the spreadsheets were for. But no one has come up with a better version of it that pleases everyone. Vendor vetting on here is "bare minimum" at best. And maybe sometimes people just want someone with some time under their belt to tell them the time. Not build a clock.

It's not about being lazy as much as it is an attempt to be efficient. Or maybe it is lazy... let them spend money.... financial loss is a great teacher.

Heck, for longer than I care to admit, I thought purity meant no contaminants.
 
brentm said:
Nah, there was a whole thread of people complaining about the anticipation of the influx of new accounts when the compound Tirz rugpull occurred.

I mean, you're going to get your fair share of newcomers that are the "lazy ones".

That's what the spreadsheets were for. But no one has come up with a better version of it that pleases everyone. Vendor vetting on here is "bare minimum" at best. And maybe sometimes people just want someone with some time under their belt to tell them the time. Not build a clock.

It's not about being lazy as much as it is an attempt to be efficient. Or maybe it is lazy... let them spend money.... financial loss is a great teacher.

Heck, for longer than I care to admit, I thought purity meant no contaminants.
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If you actually believe that and you want to be helpful and not just contrarian then instead of shitposting here all day go to the spinoff forum and get your guy to open up/take down the wall that he put the spreadsheet behind, we'll gladly direct them there.
 
exploitedworkerbee said:
Is it really that out of line to instruct newcomers that this isn’t a joke, they need to take responsibility for their own education because it involves personal risk assessment about decisions and consequences that only effect them, potentially quite seriously? All in a landscape full of cash grabbing opportunists? It’s not a “friendly” thing to say but the reality is that they’re wandering into a lion’s den with their wallet in hand and health on the line.

It is irresponsible not to take this approach in my opinion. You can’t spoon feed them whoever your preferred vendor is and then say “but I’m not responsible if you experience bad outcomes!”
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That part kind of blows my mind, these people want a random internet stranger to tell them who to order from and what to do, and they're going to blindly follow that information like its reputable or fact. Scary shit lol
 
exploitedworkerbee said:
If that happens we will send over all the lazy entitled ones for you to hold their hands and for baba to prey on their inexperience but we are keeping the ones that show some initiative for ourselves
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C'mon bee, that was a great meme in response to what you were saying. I know everyone in this thread is wrapped up in despising each other, but you got to admit that was a good response. It caught me off guard 🤣
 
adria37 said:
I really miss it and found it helpful but I understand your reasons.
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You literally just have to post over there like 10 times or something and then the section opens up. It's not behind a multiple choice quiz with an essay portion or anything. The requirement is slightly above the bare minimum, which is just north of "nothing", and the spreadsheet is yours.
 
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