This one has definitely entered circus territory
We're Bashing SRY this time.
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noteablequotable
GLP-1 Specialist
This is an absolutely crazy thing to say.
Hot pack is not a new thing invented by this one guy. It has happened in the steroid scene before. Just because you had never heard of it doesn’t mean it didn’t exist independently of your knowledge, and the idea of a vendor wanting to discipline or punish an unruly aggrieved customer doesnt seem like it should be that big a stretch. Your argument that it doesn’t make sense is weak, since it’s been a thing for many years
No, I'm aware that it's a "thing". But based on the screenshot of Alan sharing his address then asking for an address from Gibs just seemed like two angry people wanting to physically fight each other.
I outlined why the narrative didn't make sense in my previous posts. I won't go into agonizing detail about it again.
zpped
Moderator
No you're being an asshole to anyone who doesn't align with your point of view and saying they have "Illusion of Superiority or Confirmation Bias" or "Seems like you'd have to have a low moral compass to get behind the "hotpack" scenario."
You like to bully people and its tired.
raw_oyster_eater
lemon bottle brewer
so recent threads have told us ordering from QSC and SRY is risky. Others are not as high volume and established and don't have as wide variety of products. I don't know.
then others get trashed and we just keep moving down the list. where does it stop? and what is the threshold for starting a "trashing" thread 10 bucks? 40 bucks?
high volume vendors are going to have more problems that just makes sense.
nurserachet thinks we should always support a "member of the community" over a vendor
i think supporting the truth is the right thing to do.
i feel like a bit of racism is creeping in. like nobody from China is honest and such. i more worried about CVS taking over the whole drug market and really screwing us. i'm worried about the scumbags running the insurance companies of any kind right here in the good ole USA.
CVS refuses to fill my wife's zep so i'm they are in with the insurance co more than any other pharmacy. we have had to transfer it to Walgreens which somehow has no problem gettng it.
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We all discuss to elucidate the risks and benefits, then everyone can evaluate the various vendors against their own individual level of risk tolerance and priorities. It’s why we encourage people to read instead of just saying “use this vendor.” Your pushback on the process you’re witnessing stems from your preference for the “use this vendor” model, and there are better places than glp1f for you because of that.
nurseratchit
GLP-1 Specialist
Do not twist my words raw. I’ve already said multiple times I don’t know that member and I am not defending him. I’m also not going to vilify him based on an out of context screenshot. I just don’t understand the rush to defend vendors as if they are the ones who need protecting. I’m not sure why you care since you’re bent on injecting everything under the sun without caution anyway.
zpped
Moderator
Your skewed perspective is very telling. I make my dislike of tracy no secret, but putting qsc and sry on the same level is a joke. One has been (mostly) successfully fulfilling orders to community for many years and the other has been around for ~8 months.
And your racism comment is just weak, one of the most derided vendors on this forum is American of unknown ethnicity. Tracy isn't Chinese, most likely French. I don't know much about Alan, but good odds he isn't either.
keangkong
A Not So Fat Dude
Except that nurserachet never said that. I'm fine with disagreeing with what nurserachet said; I often do that myself. However, I'm not going to change the content of nurseratchet said, then criticize a straw man while pretending I'm the one fighting for truth.
I think there are many other reasons to have warnings for SRY. From their earlier rep scamming people, underfill vials, shipping issues, also lying about producing COAs then gaslighting buyers later. They promised COAs on more than one occasion then refused to produce them later. My only assumption is they know the product tested bad.
I still think the hotpack story seems fishy. I also don't think gibs is lying outright. I think gibs genuinely believes Alan sent him a hotpack. I just don't believe a letter proves enough. As anybody could have sent him a hotpack. It's not unreasonable to think someone who trolls has more than one enemy. Also the timing of the letter/events don't make sense.
I still think the hotpack story seems fishy. I also don't think gibs is lying outright. I think gibs genuinely believes Alan sent him a hotpack. I just don't believe a letter proves enough. As anybody could have sent him a hotpack. It's not unreasonable to think someone who trolls has more than one enemy. Also the timing of the letter/events don't make sense.
Said the Town Crier.
I get accused of "unfathomable" actions and "simping for vendors" when I don't see the hotpack scenario as logical?
So your response, after starting this nonsense thread is to call me an asshole?
There's another person, that I know of, who I don't believe has been made whole on a promise from Alan.
I am very curious to see what your NAD+ test results will be Vicki.
raw_oyster_eater
lemon bottle brewer
no, i like that you have lots of vendors advertising in the proper section. i like looking thru it to see if anybody has something new and different.
i guess vendors need to be criticized to keep them honest. i'll stay out of it.
zpped
Moderator
You can point your bullying at me all you like. It has no effect on me but I'll call you out when you start going after other people.
noteablequotable
GLP-1 Specialist
He never claimed that he gave Alan his current address.
Also whether or not Alan actually sent a hot pack to Gibs, it's clear from this and messages he posted on Meso that he believes Alan sent him a hot pack. I think we can probably drop the malicious liar narrative for now. At worst Gibs is simply obstinate and wrong.
zpped
Moderator
And Alan already had gibs' address from the previous order gone wrong that started gibs pestering Alan. When Alan later heard that was an old address, he started this message chain seen here.
Chizikitide-1977
GLP-1 Enthusiast
WTF? Did someone here actually convince you of something.
Never thought I'd see the day.
keangkong
A Not So Fat Dude
The main thing I fault Alan at SRY for is not permanently kicking Gibs off the SRY Discord Server sooner.
BrentM - I agree with you about the hot packet story not making sense. You’ve consistently, articulately explained why the story hasn’t made sense. I agree with you. (Even if one fully believes the facts that Gibs states, that doesn’t prove that SRY did that.). However, accusing folks who disagree with you of lacking morality or having cognitive bias (as if anyone is free of cognitive bias) doesn’t logically advance your point. Also, personally attacking people in that fashion - and yes those are personal attacks - even when viewed from a purely persuasive point of view, is unlikely to help convince them. When someone rudely called you an asshole, I suspect that didn’t help convince you. That’s not just how one persuades people. I like it that this forum is not overly polite. It’s good to be able to exchange different points of view. But it’s also important to understand that part of being living beings with emotion is that we can get offended. Argue your point. However, when you’ve made your point and the other person’s reasoning still makes no sense to you, you don’t have to resort to insults.
I wish well to everyone on this forum, including those who agree with me and those who disagree with me.
BrentM - I agree with you about the hot packet story not making sense. You’ve consistently, articulately explained why the story hasn’t made sense. I agree with you. (Even if one fully believes the facts that Gibs states, that doesn’t prove that SRY did that.). However, accusing folks who disagree with you of lacking morality or having cognitive bias (as if anyone is free of cognitive bias) doesn’t logically advance your point. Also, personally attacking people in that fashion - and yes those are personal attacks - even when viewed from a purely persuasive point of view, is unlikely to help convince them. When someone rudely called you an asshole, I suspect that didn’t help convince you. That’s not just how one persuades people. I like it that this forum is not overly polite. It’s good to be able to exchange different points of view. But it’s also important to understand that part of being living beings with emotion is that we can get offended. Argue your point. However, when you’ve made your point and the other person’s reasoning still makes no sense to you, you don’t have to resort to insults.
I wish well to everyone on this forum, including those who agree with me and those who disagree with me.
keangkong
A Not So Fat Dude
Calling BrentM an asshole is uncalled for. I agree with BrentM as the unlikeliness of the hot pack scenario. I agree with you that BrentM should get used to the reality that people often disagree with each other.
zpped
Moderator
I agree with most everything you said and this one in particular I wanted to make sure was stated.
I don't believe Gibs' story is proof that Alan triggered the customs letter.
I'll concede I was heated and it was aggressive. I'm actually extremely against name calling and in my head there is still a difference of "being an asshole to" and "are an asshole" but its fine line not worth quibbling. I'm torn on if it was uncalled for, I'll examine it in the future with a clear mind. I ignored his bullying and mocking when it was directed at me and responded to his comments with sincerity.
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raw_oyster_eater
lemon bottle brewer
the forum has been a lot of help. so i need to recognize that maybe the core group knows what they're doing.
trying to be fair whether i get along with them or not.
Chizikitide-1977
GLP-1 Enthusiast
I was just giving you a hard time anyway. You do you man.
BTW, we're coming up on 6 months, how's it coming with your goal?
I think what bothered me was being accused of "having a dog in this fight" and it being "unfathomable" to say anything to the contrary of a customer's (or non-customer's) complaint. Character assassination is the first go to argument when someone doesn't like hearing that the complaint about a vendor might not be valid or true.
Nurse Rached also began assassinating Krysia's character for bringing more facts to the situation.
As for cognitive biases, we all have them. I don't personally view it as an insult to highlight which cognitive bias might be distorting their viewpoint on a subject. It's something I try to analyze in myself and my own behavior. But I can see how it is offensive and is not persuasive.
My most recent contribution was simply posting more context (screenshots) to the Gibs/Alan argument. I've decided to stop responding to the low quality posts in this thread.
Thank you for the nice message and advice. I appreciate your logical and tactful approach. It is refreshing in what can be a fairly toxic environment.
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keangkong
A Not So Fat Dude
Your very welcome.
Obstinate and wrong is what this scene is all about.
I’ve been reading this thread and wanted to jump in now. I have no love for SRY never used them , never will. However, just because they are who they are does not give people the right to accuse them of something with very little ( if any evidence) and people just to accept it. Gibs has not shown any evidence to the PTDS mods. The evidence they’ve seen is from another mod who publicly admitted that his experience is not on the scale of hot packing . I asked this mod on GoodKitty behalf to share this evidence with me or with GK and he refused. I believe the decision to make SRY danger was simply on the basis of the hot packing claims to be true .Now if we are to accept Gibs story without substantive evidence does that not lead the way to other people accusing other vendors with no proof for their own benefit. This would be a very dangerous example to set. Gibs story has many holes which I can share but are all in my channel. EG. The letter says goods seized on 23 October yet by 31 October he says in another forum that he got the letter the other day . How quick is that for a customs case? He’s also said that SRY sending it is “Pure conjecture”. He’s a very avid shopper and I have all his recent purchases from this forum. Lots of them. It’s possible he actually did receive a customs letter for a box of S,,ds but it could just have been a regular seizure of one of his purchases that he forgot about since he’s done so many. All it says on the ledger we are shown is containing one box of S,,,ds nowhere does it say “labelled” . Also the way he is, he’ll likely have many enemies so could be anyone of them sending a hot pack. Do customs also contact the sender of a hot pack too? Why would SRY risk this for themselves? His fight with ALan started on 21 October when he callled for Akz. To “come out to play”. I’ve checked the chat prior and not much there. Yet the hot pack arrived at customs on 23 October. How is that even possible. I’m all about facts. There is one extremely vocal PTDS mod who seems to think I’m an SRY supporter by doing this and even told me I’m in business with them bc of all the testing I’ve done. He sent me several DMs which were unnecessary. This nurse here has taken it upon herself to make snide comments about me at every opportunity. Why ? What have I done? Does anyone think I went ahead and posted my post in peppys without getting it checked first. I find it very strange how there are just a couple of extremely vocal people against me . Does make me wonder why ? Anyway I just wanted to chime in with the “evidence” that I’ve uncovered. If people had been more forthcoming with any evidence they had to start with then this whole drama would have been laid to rest days ago no doubt instead
Also although I’m replying to Notesblequotable, im not directing this at him specifically. Just to everyone in general involved in this thread
noteablequotable
GLP-1 Specialist
Interesting. Do you want to explain exactly who you are? I happen to frequent other forums like this where astroturfing is a regular occurrence, so I immediately noticed that you only joined this forum and hour ago. What name(s) are you using on PDTS and Peppy's?
A few things I want to add to this conversation while I wait for this person to reply:
First, there will never be definitive proof of Gibs being hot packed. Alan will never admit it, and we will never get access to the packaging Gibs received so we cannot compare it to previous packages sent by SRY. We have no subpoena power here so if that's the standard you're applying there's no point in this back and forth. What's at stake IMHO is whether or not it's possible or probable that Alan sent the hot pack, and that's another story altogether.
I think this context has been completely lost. Much of the drama were talking about (including the postage issue) was first documented on Meso where there are 20+ pages of people other than Gibs with valid complaints about Alan: taking people's money and not delivering product, blocking people who complained about missing product, lying about his intent to fix the issue multiple times before finally blocking people who complained about missing product, sending the kind of product what could get you killed with too much variance in dosing, refusing to follow up on promises to provide 2nd party tests, proving 2nd party tests that did not match Jano results, etc.
Multiple customers had issues with missing product and he tried to promotion his way though it like no one would notice. It got so bad that the community started downvoting his posts and basically had to bully him into delivering for one person's August which wasn't received until the end of October.
SRY completely burned their reputation in that community, not just with Gibs. So while he comes over to the Peptide community and pretends to be a poor victim that some mystery person is trying to tear down that's not quite the case.
I'll try to post some specific links later but everything after this post is relevant: https://thinksteroids.com/community...estic-shipping.134425028/page-27#post-3323545
I also want to be clear about this since it keeps coming up and I've discussed it with Krysia who I love and support even though I think our opinions are diverging:
It's very possible that the timeline makes sense. Right now we don't actually know.
While Gibs' first public message to Alan on Discord happened on the 21st of October, because he is a member of Meso and also has access to Alan's email and Whatsapp it's very possible that he contacted them via those methods earlier than that. If you read through that Meso thread you'll quickly notice that like the customer who had to wait months for Alan to honor his order, people often have to reach out to Alan multiple times over multiple channels to get resolution. The gap between when Gibs and Alan started fighting and when he received the hot pack may be wider than we think. We're not likely to get support from Gibs in clearing this up because Peptide folks weren't very nice to him, so I believe Krysia has asked Alan to turn over his communication with Gibs. To my knowledge Alan hasn't responded yet.
@exploitedworkerbee
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Flossy's recollection or summary matches the information provided by Krysia.
Krysia asked me to relay her latest information from her channel on this thread/forum, but I've been reluctant to do this for several reasons. I was going to put together a summary along with the screens and post it today, but Flossy's summary is accurate less the backing screens.
The hotpack issue just seems to be a nothingburger overall when compared contrasted against the other claims. Even if the hotpack claim is true, it doesn't result in any harm to someone who's received 20+ seizure letters in the past. Therefore, it just seems to be a distraction, and the real crime is probably all the time that is spent discussing it.
I'm more interested in the real and tangible issues brought up by forum members, such as promises made but promises not kept.
noteablequotable
GLP-1 Specialist
It's possible that's true but it doesn't answer my question about who they are. They are obviously not a "normal" forum member and came here with the explicit goal of shaping the direction of this conversation.
Whether or not a hot pack was sent in this particular case, I don't think we should ever brush off the practice as "not harmful" in any context because we cannot predict how the authorities will respond to each instance.
That said, I think I was pretty clear about this in my post but at this point there's not really anything to argue about if the goal is to prove definitively whether or not Alan sent a hot pack. We're not going to get that.
It honestly feels like the people most reluctant to drop the issue are the people defending SRY and insisting it absolutely could not have happened. The only things I've asserted are the following:
- Gibs' story is pretty consistent, and his belief that SRY sent him a hot pack appears to be genuine.
- It is possible that the timeline people have attempted to establish is off because we don't know when Gibs first started messaging Alan. We know he posted in the SRY discord on 21 October, but we don't know if there were messages before that on other platforms.
- Even if the timeline according to Gibs checks out we will never have enough proof to fully validate his claims.
I don't know how any of that is controversial, and I've been shocking consistent about this position. From oldest to newest:
"Double down on what? I legitimately have no clue what happened here, but I don't think the fact that this OG appears to be an asshole necessarily makes him a lying asshole."
"No, we know nothing, and nothing has been solved."
"I still don't believe that we have enough information to know what happened here"
"As much as this guy does not seem great, he could also be telling the truth. We don't have enough information to really understand what went on so that's my current stance: I don't know."
"That doesn't mean he's lying, it just means we can't prove he's telling the truth."
According to wordcounter.net I wrote 223 words about that and you didn't comment on it at all. That's actually why I tagged EWB in my last post. I don't know how he feels, but in my book everything on Meso probably warrants a warning on its own, independent of the HP claims.
I’m sorry but what on god’s green earth are you talking about? If the hot pack claim is true and this vendor made an attempt—however hamfisted it turned out to be—to get law enforcement eyeballs on a customer, that is just about the most heinous thing a vendor can do aside from sending literal poison. Your take here really demonstrates how bad a handle you have on all of this.
I'd discourage you from trying to conclude the intentions of the post and the person. The post was mostly a relay of what you've probably already seen on Krysia's chat channel. What benefit is gained by knowing who Flossy is if you've already seen Krysia's posts and can reference that to the post Flossy made?
I haven't brushed it off as "not harmful" in as a practice. In fact, I've stated that if someone were to hotpack someone, why wouldn't they be more malicious and send something that tests positive for opioids?
Then even Gibs himself says it's "pure conjecture"
Agreed
I'd like to drop this issue and look at the other issues in more detail. I think the hotpack is a nothingburger
No it isn't consistent. I've posted a screenshot above where he says it's "pure conjecture". Please see above.
There is a lot of the story that is missing.
Agreed
Despite your consistency. There is inconsistencies through the narrative.
Not sure where I stated "double down". I've conceded that a broken clock is right twice a day. And if Gibs believed it, then suddenly he isn't lying that he believes Alan hotpacked him. It doesn't make it true. And again, Gibs stated that it was "pure conjecture" in his mind. So clearly he doesn't believe it. So you are wrong here.
Not sure the reference here.
I still think it's a nothingburger. He got a customs letter for steroids which he threw away. If it was for narcotics he's never ordered, or a substance outside of his normal behavior patterns. That would be more interesting as it would show some malicious intent.
That's fine.
I posted a screenshot above where he states it's "pure conjecture". If you want to continue this angle, I suggest you post something more than quotes, and perhaps consider screenshots where he's changed from "pure conjecture" to "absolute belief".
It says "1 Box containing"...
Date altercation started
Timeline inconsistency.
Here's an example of someone else's timeline for a seizure letter.
That is all I have at this point.
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I haven't seen you post anything factual about this incident.
Sorry you think my take on this is demonstrates a bad handle on the situation. I think you're, again, discrediting yourself by posting statements like this.
I haven't seen a shred of evidence that would lead me to conclude the claim is true. If you have some please post it instead of attacking my credibility.
You’re bonkers. I haven’t said anything about the facts of the case because they’re unclear. What is a fact is that hot packing someone is a fucking heinous thing to do if it happened. You said it’s no big deal. I’m not making claims about whether it did or did not occur so my credibility is not relevant
Please quote specifically where I categorically said that any "hotpack" scenario is "no big deal".
Sorry if I was unclear in that statement. It was referencing these screens.
Categorically, I've referred to the practice as "abhorrent". Please review my first post in this thread for that information.
For convenience I will link where I stated that the practice is abhorrent.
penewbie
GLP-1 Specialist
I had to quote this because I feel like giving a simple thumbs up isn't doing enough justice to how much I agree with this.
Unbelievable someone would actually try to minimize a vendor possibly doing this shit.
It's nuts.
noteablequotable
GLP-1 Specialist
This was me quoting all of my other posts from this thread (the old fashioned way) where I said I don't think there are enough facts to support a conclusion
Their intent is clear. It may not be malicious but they were absolutely attempting to influence the direction of the conversation without identifying themselves. That makes it difficult to evaluate their credibility and motives. You can see pretty much everything I've written about this on public forums attached to the same name. I stand behind what I'm saying.
This is the thing I'm disputing and I don't know why you're pinning your conclusions to this. It is possible that Alan and Gibs started fighting about this elsewhere and it only spilled over to discord on 21 October. We don't know, and the only way to know would be to get access to their communications.
These are not screenshots of things Gibs said. These are unattributed screenshots of text from a platform that looks like discord. We can't conclude anything from this at all.
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Read my response. I've already stated that it is "abhorrent" as a practice.
Your message is uninformed and wrong. Please stop trying to misconstrue my words.
Fair.
In conclusion, I think our time would be better served digging deeper into the other issues that have been raised than continuing this conversation about the hotpack scenario.
Please note: For those with comprehension difficulties. The practice of HOTPACKING IS ABHORRENT.
penewbie
GLP-1 Specialist
I didn't misconstrue your words, here they are, in all their glory:
This comment utterly insane. You not seeing just how insane it is, is part of the insanity.
You're just manipulating and misconstruing my words. You're not adding any value to this conversation whatsoever. I'm done responding to you.
penewbie
GLP-1 Specialist
Literally just quoted you, word for word.
I read the words the same way you did, hence my response. But I gather @brentm didn’t mean them the way we have interpreted it, considering his unequivocal follow up about hot packs being unacceptable. I’m not sure what he meant but I also don’t really think it matters since the really abhorrent interpretation isn’t the correct one.
Sorry I should have used the same username but I assumed everyone would realise it’s me …Krysia …sorry my fault. Anyway I’ve concluded my investigation finally in Swiss 🇨🇭
